Beechcraft Starship | FerrariChat

Beechcraft Starship

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by rob lay, Nov 18, 2009.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #1 rob lay, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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  3. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    Dec 29, 2006
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    If the History Channel is correct that might be the only one still in existence. The rest were bought back and scrapped.

    One of the most beautiful planes ever built.
     
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  4. DMC

    DMC Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2002
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    Dean
    Very cool. I have only ever seen one once, and read quite a bit about them. Looks like a great design. Too bad they never really caught hold in the market, I wonder why the canard/pusher design isn't used more often.
     
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  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    According to the mountain flying instructor we were with and also that Wiki page there are 6 left that are FAA certified and flying. There are a few flying, but most of the 54 or so were taken back off lease and destroyed. Several were bought and not leased although Beech was able to buy back some of those too, several owners refused.
     
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  6. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    I think it was an episode of Modern Marvels "Boneyards" that featured one particularly dedicated owner. He apparently bought the entire stock of spare parts from Raytheon and two airframes to insure that his plane survives.
     
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  7. swaq

    swaq Karting

    Feb 7, 2007
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    Justin
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  8. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Nice-looking plane. :)

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  9. PlaneGuy

    PlaneGuy Rookie

    Oct 29, 2009
    39
    There is one based here in Addison, TX that flys on occasion. Great plane just too early for acceptance. the Piaggio 180 is catching on quite well. With the newer version, that pusher canard is very efficient.

    "jet speeds and turboprop prices"

    The Piaggio Avanti is on my dream airplane list.
     
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  10. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
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    Apr 20, 2004
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    #10 Ney, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
    Great idea, but unfortunately way ahead of its time. The Piaggio P180 uses a similar configuration but with 3 lifting surfaces rather than 2. More efficient and roomier than most jets and a beautiful design to boot. The canard also makes it very safe.

    http://www.piaggioaero.com/#/en

    Edit: Repeat of above.....Great minds respond alike! I was just too slow.
     
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  11. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
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    Mar 21, 2004
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  12. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The Piaggio is a much better airplane-- the Starship was just too heavy, and didn't meet the performance goals. That's the difficulty with being on the bleeding edge of technology. In the end, a King Air 300/350 was a better airplane.
     
  13. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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  14. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Pics of the actual one for sale: http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N8285Q

    She's a beauty. :)

    I'm not a fan of the Piaggio's looks. Looks overweight/pudgy...
     
  15. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Can you RVSM a Starship?

    Looking at FlightAware, it doesn't look like this one has flown since July. I wonder if Beech will buy it...

     
  16. future328driver

    future328driver Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2001
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    I seem to recall reading an AIN article earlier this year about an owner that has an RVSM'd Starship.
     
  17. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    Holy smokes! You thought the last major on your 355 was expensive!
     
  18. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Given the state of the economy and private plane sales being down, I doubt they will throw $1.7mm at this just to scrap it. If they do, that's a terribly run company imo.
     
  19. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I'd be very surprised if anyone pays $1.7MM for that airplane for any purpose.

     
  20. alum04org

    alum04org F1 Rookie
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    As you are in Portland, OR, maybe you know. Isn't there one of these dudes parked outside/behind the Evergreen Air Museum? I was there 9-2008 and believe I observed one of these behind the museum building.
     
  21. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    There might be-- I was just out there a couple of weeks ago, and I don't remember seeing one, but it was raining and I wasn't outside much.

    Several Starships did go to museums, for sure. There's one in Tucson, for example.

     
  22. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    The Starship was flawed from the concept and its development issues further compounded the problems. If it wasn't for Raytheon's deep pockets the program would have been killed early.

    When the Starship was conceived oil was high and expected keep going higher. Interest were high too. Burt Rutan had done his canard homebuilt and it was all the "buzz". Into this environment the Starship was to become a King Air successor. Problem one was that it had a very small cabin; King Air is far more spacious. Problem 2 was that the performance was to be just marginally better than a King Air but more fuel efficient.

    Fast forward through a hugely troubled development (aka: missed every "to market" date ever established) and the result is no better than a King Air but at the cost of a Hawker. By this time oil has fallen to lows and a major economic expansion is going strong. Wrong aircraft, wrong price, wrong time.

    Compare this to the Piaggio Avanti. From the very beginning the concept for the Avanti was to provide Citation performance with tuboprop fuel burns. Interior size was to be comparable to the Falcon 20. The fuselage shape is for laminar flow - no constant cross section length. Compare block times and it takes a long flight before the jet actually starts to get to destination quicker.

    Jeff
     
  23. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    It's probably N74TF: http://rps3.com/Pages/Starships%20NC-21%20to%20NC-30.htm#NC-27
     
  24. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
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    Jeff pretty much hit it right on the nose. The biggest problem was that the drag of the aircraft wasn't as low as they thought it was going to be. Rutan did a subscale model and they took the drag estimates from that. Turned out that approach was optimistic and the end result had more drag than they had planned. This has happened on several programs that Scaled did, and the end result hasn't worked out well. Could have been that when the program went "over the wall" to Beech the NIH factor kicked in and things got heavier and more draggy (if that's a word) than what Scaled planned. Remember too that this was early in the time of certifying composite aircraft so there could have been FAA requirements that added weight. Also they had to add a lot of complexity during development with the swinging canard surface.

    Seems that they got caught dancing with that girl "Rosie Scenario" and didn't figure it out until it was too late. Bottom line was a lot more cost for not much performance gain and that doomed the program.
     
  25. future328driver

    future328driver Formula 3

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    Weight was definitely an issue with the Starship. The FAA had a lot of concern about at that time about using a composite fuselage, so they forced Beechcraft to enhance the structure with a lot of aluminum. Once that was done, the weight targets were missed by a large margin and the performance suffered greatly. Still, the Starship is one fantastic looking plane.
     

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