Beechcraft Starship | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Beechcraft Starship

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by rob lay, Nov 18, 2009.

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  1. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    Did it have a tail?
    There is no conventional tail on a starship... Piaggio has a big T-tail.

    One flies over here a couple times a month or so...
     
  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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  3. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3
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    Couldn’t say for sure if it had a tail or not. Dual engines were pretty close to each other which made me think it was a SS. But it could have been a piaggio. I wasn’t aware of it before I saw it so wasn’t keying on that feature I’m afraid...

    SV


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  4. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    #79 BMW.SauberF1Team, Aug 11, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
    Here are at least 5 (up to 6) active FAA registered Starships. All but 2 or so have hidden their flight history...maybe their registration city can help.

    N45FL - Tulsa, Oklahoma
    N8149S - Tulsa, Oklahoma (I don't think it's flown in a while)
    N723SC - Dallas, TX
    N903SC - Dallas, TX (now listed as an experimental plane under a different name but as of April 2019 photos still a Starship)
    N514RS - Aspen, CO
    N8244L - Wilmington, DE
     
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  5. Tcar

    Tcar F1 Rookie

    N514RS, Robert Scherer's plane, flies over here fairly regularly. Bases at Rocky Mountain Airport (Jefferson County, near Denver) often.

    He apparently has a warehouse full of spare parts.
     
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  6. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    14,244
    Must be cool to see flying! I've only seen them static and in poor condition. I've probably posted this before, but here is N214JB in Birmingham I took photos of some years ago...so sad.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/havblu/14493528060/in/album-72157645338076749/
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/havblu/14677019261/in/album-72157645338076749/

    Robert Scherer's has a lot of roles as a chase plane. This is per his bio here: https://ahlfa.org/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=467134&module_id=316380

    Pretty awesome.
     
  7. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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  8. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    WOW! Hope it was a test flight!
     
  9. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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  10. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
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    A recent Starship walkaround.

    Enjoy!

     
  11. john a barnes

    john a barnes Karting
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    Star ship is gorgeous. Just beautiful. That Piaggio looks like a Dino GT-4. Oops.
     
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  12. Harcross

    Harcross Rookie

    Sep 6, 2018
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    The aluminum was added for lightning strike protection demanded by the FAA. That put the plane overweight and killed the aircraft. Burt designed some great aircraft including one for Toyota with a Lexus engine. The FAA got religion after and backed off their demanding positions.
     
  13. jcurry

    jcurry Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Pretty much everything Burt designed and flew as POC ended up being overweight after complying with certification requirements. If they had adjusted the POC aircraft testing to simulate extrapolated final design some of those aircraft never would have gone to full-scale development.
     
  14. Harcross

    Harcross Rookie

    Sep 6, 2018
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    Al Cabito
    When I was at Burt's shop most of the projects were for the AF and private development (no FAA involvement). After the Starship I don't think he did much that was to be commercialized.
     
  15. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    If you want the one that the FAA really did kill look at the Lear Fan. The FAA person reinterpreted the regulation on the gearbox to the point where it could not pass the test. Only after the project was dead did the FAA admit that the standard used by the one person was incorrect. Too little too late although the Lear Fan people had been trying to argue this point while this was going on.

    The Starship had a conceptual problem from early on. It was conceived as a King Air replacement so that was their benchmark for speed and range. But the Starship has a far smaller cabin and lacked the utility characteristics with the ability to carry "stuff" inside the cabin. Sexy? Yes but it mostly stopped there. If it had not of been for Raytheon's deep pockets the Starship could have killed Beechcraft. As it was, the folly of the Starship was followed by the Premier and Horizon.
     
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  16. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    The Piaggio is actually a very sophisticated design. It is not a constant section tube design but instead has a full laminar evolving cross section. As a cross section they targeted the Falcon 20/50, although their original concept had targeted the Falcon 10.

    Their concept was to use new style aerodynamics (3 lifting surfaces) combined with proven construction (aluminum) and proven engines (PT6) as risk mitigation. Piaggio's problem was that they new that they would be unable to afford all the development cost themselves. They first partnered with Learjet but did not understand that Learjet had their own financial problems. By the time the Piaggio was ready to be in production much of the advantages of low fuel burn as a driving factor in the marketplace had dissipated.

    Interestingly, the original interiors for the Starship and the Piaggio were both design by the same person - Benn Isaccman. Long time head of interior design for Learjet that went independent with these projects.
     
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  17. john a barnes

    john a barnes Karting
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    Jeff Kennedy, all newer Composite stuff has laminar flow in mind. But i think the Piaggio has an actual lifting body Fuselage IMHO.
     
  18. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    The fuselage was not described as another lifting body. What it was described as, as clearly demonstrates is how it is not a constant section tube. More aerodynamically efficient but a far more complex construction. Go back and look at an original Constellation versus the stretched version.

    The Piaggio is very, very fast for a turboprop. The crossover point was somewhere over a 1,000 nm trip where its block time of the Piaggio would beat the early Citations with a whole lot less fuel burn.
     
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  19. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
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    Now banned by many airports because of the noise they make, our private airport KSMO banned them about 6 or 7 years ago.
     
  20. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    KSMO is working very hard to throw all aircraft out. I hope they loose the lawsuits and are able to hold the city commissioners personally liable.
     
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  21. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
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    Yep, it's my neighborhood airport, I have been involved with the aviation community here to keep it open for years, set to close in 2028 as of now.
     
  22. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
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  23. sigar

    sigar F1 Rookie
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  24. A12pilot

    A12pilot Formula Junior
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    The corporation I flew for out of Northeast Philly had one, and I got to do a trip in it. Very cool plane. Maintenance pig though since it seems it was always breaking. Then the other day we were departing 31L at DFW and off in the distance in the fire fighter’s training area you can see one sitting there. I told the FO,”Check that out! A Beech Starship!” To which I heard “A who?”:confused:

    Kind of weird though. “Ok, we’ll put you through rescue training using this aircraft, but don’t remember anything since you’ll never see one of these!”:p

    cheers
    Dave
     
  25. dmark1

    dmark1 F1 World Champ
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