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Been a lurker for a while, think I’m ready to buy a Ferrari

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by CoreyNJ, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Rookie

    Apr 17, 2006
    19
    New Jersey Shore
    Ok so some background.

    I live in NJ near the shore. Currently have a 2004 Porsche GT3 which I bought new. I’m not sure I want to get rid of it as I have owned it now for long enough it feels like a member of the family.

    So here is my dilemma, I have enough liquid cash put aside which could buy me a nice 2006 or 2007 F430, or I can take a loan and move to a 2010/2011 458 or a 2007 599. I don’t think I’ll be tracking the car, I don’t track the GT3 (my wife asked me sell my dedicated race car years ago when my second son was born)

    As for use, I expect weekends, with some exceptions on nice days. I have been doing about 2K per year on the GT3, but expect to do more on the Ferrari going to meetups as I haven’t been active in the PCA in years. My teenager is a car nut so I figure it’s something for him and I to do together. He actually wants me to buy a Mclaren, I told him I want a car that runs and doesn’t break down every week (which is why I’m not considering a more classic Ferrari)

    So the question is, being someone who is used to the very analog 2004 GT3, will the 430 be too similar to the GT3 since they are of similar vintage?
    is it worth having a loan to move from the 430 to a 458 or 599? Then the next question, 458 or 599? Does the non HGTE 599 really handle poorly compared to what I’m used to with the GT3. I do like the idea of a V12 but I’m not the 458 engine is the end of an era.

    Finally a very practical question, my driveway is on a hill so the GT3 just barely makes it up without scraping the splitter when I come in at an angle. Will a F430 or 458 scrape, anyone else with a 996 GT3 have experience with the front clearance on the Ferrari vs the Porsche?

    I don’t have to make a purchase decision till the weather is a little nicer but I can if I find the right car so I need to start narrowing what I’m looking for down.

    Thanks,
    Corey


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  2. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    There are Porsches, and there are Ferraris. The 430 or 458 will not "be like" the 911 in any way. It will be a completely different experience. I love my 997, but the 360 is a trip. A sensory overload weekend mini-excursion.

    IMHO if you are thinking of a 430 manual transmission, then I'd consider that without upgrading to the 458.

    If your thoughts are a 430 with an F1 transmission... skip it and buy the 458. If you go paddles, go with a DCT transmission. I'm not sure I'd go with a loan for the car personally since you have the weekend car. I guess you could go with a loan and then sell the GT3 when you find the 458 that much more engaging. :)
     
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  3. Alcav5

    Alcav5 Formula 3
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    Corey

    I also came from Porsche , Ferrari totally different no matter what , can't compare , don't try , not fair comps.

    If I were making choice now , knowing what I know , I would choose newest 458. I'm a bells and whistles guy. Also 458 might still have some included maintenance time left & warranty
    If had to spend less , then the 430 is fine but should be an awesome value (low miles , few owners, well kept, no issues, etc) , these cars are getting old , and service can be expensive.
    A 599 imo is the pinnacle of choices , but most likely more costly in all respects, but unless I was comparing a 458 spider to a 599, I would choose the 599. Nothing like the v12's.

    Good luck
     
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  4. Canuck550

    Canuck550 Formula Junior
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    Seems the real issue is the driveway, measure the front overhang of either model vs the Porsche, may consider buying the model(s) with a front lift, to ensure you can park it.
    Or perform a test drive to your driveway to determine if you can even entertain buying that particular model.
    Is it available on either of the cars you are choosing, I am not certain?
    Presently own a 550, overhang was way to long for my former sloped drive
    Neither car wont serve you well if you cannot park it
    My two pennies
     
  5. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Rookie

    Apr 17, 2006
    19
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    Not sure if I follow, do you mean get the 599 over a 458? As I understand the 599 clutch is more "beefy" than the F430 in the F1 transmission, so while not as smooth as the 458, it should not need to be replaced very often. Is that true?

    Thanks,
    Corey
     
  6. Alcav5

    Alcav5 Formula 3
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    Honestly my comments are only visceral , technically I'm not that knowledgeable , there's Fchat for that :)

    599 is a V12 and there is something special about a V12 that a V8 can't duplicate . That said , for how I drive for fun , I enjoy great weather driving fun so top down driving is the best , if you can.
    That's only reason I would consider a 458 (spider) over a 599.
    Otherwise if you are only looking at coupes and you can get into a well taken care of 599 I say that's the way to go regardless of transmission comps .
    Also maybe since 599 trans (beefy?) might be more solid than the others , another reason ...
     
  7. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula Junior
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    A few months ago I traded my 599 for a 458. I also still own a 430. If I had to choose between the three, it would be the 458. Yesterday I took my 430 out for a drive, and it felt so dated. The F1 shifts so slow compared to the 458, and I stress out every time I park in my driveway. My driveway is on a slight incline, and the F1 in reverse is not good for the clutch life (on a hill).

    As for the 599, I just did not enjoy the way it drove. The hood is so long and the road feel was very "floaty". Engine and exhaust note are awesome on the 599, and no comparison to the 458. However, in the end it was about the drive for me, and the 458 wins out. The 458 is also technologically ahead of both the 430 and 599 (media interface, DCT, etc). I also have a teenage son and much prefers the 458. If you can, try to drive all 3 vehicles. They are very different.
     
  8. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    The 430 and 599 as have been noted are old technology. Just off the top of my head there were issues were the e-diff on the 430 and the standard wheels don't suffer pot holes well at all resulting in bent rims. The pump for the F1 trans can fail over time. The hydraulics for the soft top can leak to on the Spider version.
    The 599 is more of a very large wide GT car than a sports car and it lacks traction with all that V12 power. It to has the F1 transmission. The dash leather is prone to pulling away and there are issues with the mag shocks leaking oil. Some owners complained of engine noise on the 2006 - 2007 models. The carbon brakes are expensive on these older Ferrari models to and became standard in 2007 so only early cars still had weaker performing steel brakes.
    The early 458 had issues with the DCT unit being replaced due to wiring inside melting. This was typically 2010-2011 models and occasionally 2012 458 owners encountered DCT problems to. The newer 458 is a very nice driving experience that proved very popular to the point that some 488 buyers sold that car and got another 458 instead. There are thousands of Italia models to choose from in every color combination imaginable. Some buyers like the race seats and others prefer the more adjustable power seats; try both to understand the comfort and seat height differences. The shift lights on the steering wheel are a popular option along with the fender shields. Cars without these options can limit the number of interested buyers in the future. Color is an important consideration with red obviously being the most popular shade with white and black plus grey also being in the mix. Yellow and blue cars tend to sit longer but might be purchased for less than comparable spec red cars.
     
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  9. C50

    C50 Formula Junior
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    599, 430MT, 458 are arguably all unique options worthy of consideration. Since you have the luxury of time, why not just drive all three and see which one appeals to you most. That would also potentially give you an opportunity to do a test of the driveway. Good luck with the search.
     
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  10. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Rookie

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    Corey, you're looking at the wrong cars. You have two sons, you need a 612 or FF or GTC4Lusso! ;)
     
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  11. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    I am on Ferrari #8 and have owned 44 Porsche's (I have 3 now), and I have owned a lot of cars (in fact there is no car that I have not owned that I want to own, at least today). I currently own a 458 spider, but I owned 5 360/430's each car in gearshift and F1. I have also owned a 04 575 and a 2015 Calf T (a modified one), and if you want to enjoy your first Ferrari contact Algar (I can help if you like), and buy a 458 (if you have a particular color or list of options you can let them know that as well). There is some good advise in this thread, but as a person who sees cars only as machines (without emotion), I would not advise buying a 360/430 (as a first Ferrari) if you can swing a 458. You might even be able to get a CPO car and get some free service (depending on the year). My car has a front lift system (my modified 997 car is much lower than the 458), which will help you avoid scrapping. Driving a F1 tranny vs the DCT in the 458 is like night and day, and regardless of how much I like the feel of the manual 360/430 you would probably not be impressed with the gearshift cars (they are not the best manual cars to drive). I say this often but it is not less true because I do. If you don't have a look at the Alfa 4C (especially if you have a 430 in mind), you maybe missing out on a great car, which in my opinion is a better drivers car that either the 360 or 430, and with about 4-5K of simple modifications, it will really blow away either Ferrari. Some people buy cars already thinking about what they will be worth when they sell them, to me that is strange (why buy if it you are worried about what you can sell it for). Being a car person is about enjoying cars (we all have a different ways of doing that), and since just about every car you ever will buy will be worth less when you sell it, I have never understood this notion of what could I sell it for before you even buy something. If I can be of help (I have helped others on here), please let me know, regardless I wish you luck in your search
     
  12. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Rookie

    Apr 17, 2006
    19
    New Jersey Shore
    Thanks, but I think that's why I have my Mercedes and Cayenne.

    On a more serious note, here is another option I thought of. Buying an F430 this year for cash and then selling it next year and getting a 2010 or 2011 458 for cash which should have depreciated more. Do you think the F430 are still dropping in value more than the interest rate on a loan? If the TCO on the 430 is almost flat for a year and maybe 2000 miles, then it might make sense so I don't have any loan.

    Does that idea sound crazy. I really don't want to liquidate any assets, the market is just too strong, just to buy a car.

    OK, now back to work so that I can pay for the car :)

    Thanks,
    Corey
     
  13. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

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    Your not sure what you want but thinking to keep it for just a year in order to trade to a newer model having driven neither? Your not crazy and might be better off renting one periodically.

    You might be surprised what you like once you drive different ones and enticed to keep it longer than you thought you would.

    Newer does not always mean better from a driving perspective, if you just want a Ferrari to play around and flip your better off going for an older model.
     
  14. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Rookie

    Apr 17, 2006
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    I don't really expect to "flip" the car with profit, I'm just trying to figure out how to start the "Ferrari" phase of my life (I have been a Porsche owner since I started driving back in the 80's). I am normally not a car flipper type of person, I have had my GT3 for almost 16 years and my first Cayenne I kept for 10 years before buying a new Cayenne.

    I originally was set on getting a 430 then I started watching YouTube videos and it got me thinking about moving to the 458. Everyone who drives both back to back keeps talking about how awesome the 458 is and I don't want to make a decision that I will regret. So I was trying to think of how to do this without having my wife freak out. Right now I'm funding the cash part of this "purchase" with the sale of a watch that I almost never wore. I should also mention don't want another stick shift, not that I don't enjoy the shifting, but I think I want flappy paddles for some reason as I get older.
     
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  15. audi_328

    audi_328 Formula Junior
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    If it won't clear without scraping, in a pinch you can place a piece of plywood across the transition and you'll be fine. I do this to park my 355, takes 2 seconds to do and it's free. It would be silly to limit your choices to cars with a front-end lift if driveway clearance was the only issue.
     
  16. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Go drive a 4C, it also has a better transmission than the 430.
     
  17. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Rookie

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    wow, so the Ferrari Chat board is telling me to buy an Alpha. Nope, think I'm settled on a Ferrari, just can't figure out which one. ;)
     
  18. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula Junior
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    I would go for the 458. The 430 was my first Ferrari, then I added a Testarossa which I then sold for a 599, to which I then traded for a 458. If I had purchased the 458 first, I don't think I would have gotten the 430, Testarossa, or 599. However, it's all about the journey.
     
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  19. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Nope someone that knows a lot about cars is telling to buy a better car, that will have a warranty. There are many Ferrari owners that also own an Alfa 4C (like me and now I want a 2nd one), check the other Italian section here. I realize not everyone wants to or can own close to 500 cars (and have taken apart countless more), but when you remove emotion (which I am incapable of judging any machine with), from your decision, you can see a lot more clearly. Sort of like the person who says I hate sushi, and has never tried it. I tend to try everything and if I don't like it, I change it until I do.. I am curious OP, how many different Ferrari's have you driven? It is impossible to experience how a car drives from a video, I never have been able to understand why people make those videos.
     
  20. Alcav5

    Alcav5 Formula 3
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    oh this ^ post is so unfair.

    I'm not a psychic but I bet Corey has a dream and he is asking for help and direction relative to the ownership of a Ferrari not another brand , whether "better" or not.
    I'm only 6 years into Ferrari ownership and I remember that dream well.

    Like I posted , if I had the advantage of knowing back then what I know now , I would opt for the newer model (hopefully w a warranty) rather than climb the ladder . Cost is going to be crappy either way (up front on purchase or back end on repairs)
    Owning a 430 , after a while you are going o want a 458, then a 488 and perhaps so on. Owning a 599 you actually may be content longer. Agreed 430 / 458 totally different drivers, feel and aura compared to 599 (or any V12) .

    I am so glad I was able to scratch the itch I had since childhood.
     
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  21. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Rookie

    Apr 17, 2006
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    I learned to drive stick on a Mondial back in in the 80's. Not the greatest car for that, but the gated shifter was helpful. The last Ferrari I drove was a 360 when I was deciding on ordering my GT3 back in 03.

    As for the Alpha, not what I'm looking for. If I wanted a new car with a warranty that could potentially be driven daily, I'd just trade in my Mercedes for a new 2020 Carrera which is also an automatic dual clutch.

    I do think I need to do test drives. I don't expect to simply decide without driving. Sometimes the fastest car isn't what gets you excited, sometimes it's the personality of the car. I hope to begin that process soon.

    Cheers,
    Corey
     
  22. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    this one is pretty easy if money not a factor:
    458>430>599
     
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  23. Mikael-F360

    Mikael-F360 Formula Junior

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    ^This.
     
  24. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper F1 World Champ
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    #24 G. Pepper, Jan 16, 2020 at 2:51 PM
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020 at 3:06 PM
    The best choice for you, IMO, would be a 458 with a front lift. They are quite modern and reliable cars with no achilles heel problems like that the F1 transmission F430's have (Manual 360's and F430's have way fewer problems), and you could get it in your driveway. The 599 is a cool car, but read the 599 forum threads about the electronic shocks. Some people have had some problems. My driveway has just a gentle slope, especially on the apron, and I have to angle my 360 in to get it not to scrape. And yes, it's a manual because I must have a manual. That said, when I have room, I very well may get a 458 in addition; I'd never sell my manual 360. The 458 is also the last NA V8, which may - just may - help it hold value over the later turbo cars.
     
  25. Veedub00

    Veedub00 F1 Rookie
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    Hold off for a few months and go meet up with the local FCA group when they go do a drive. Tons of great feedback.
     

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