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Belt service without removing engine?

Discussion in '348/355' started by ///criss, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. 355rockit

    355rockit Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2010
    871
    San Marcos, CA
    Full Name:
    Vas
    Talk to Adam at Ace Motorsports Racing. He is in Carlsbad. He does an excellent job on Ferraris. I started going to him after the previous independent shop messed up allot of stuff on my car. He got it sorted. http://www.acemotorsportsracing.com/
     
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  3. cactussed

    cactussed Karting

    Mar 12, 2008
    166
    FWIW, the following model moved the fuel tanks out of the way specifically to provide access to the belts without having to remove the engine.
    And the preceding models (308 etc) provided access through the wheel arch.
    Newer models ditched belts in favour of chains meaning the engine rarely, if ever, needs to come out.

    The simple matter is, the 355 (and 348) have a design quirk which means that doing belts with engine in is difficult, which arguably makes them more costly to maintain.

    End of, in my book.
     
  4. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
    8,685
    New England/FL
    While I would not do an engine in belt service, a 355 isn't going to fall out of the sky if you eff it up. And engine in or or, there are plenty of ways to eff up an belt service. Actually more with engine out since you're messing with brake lines, shift linkage, electronics,.....,sub frame mount,....

    I know, you were just making a point. But it's not a relevant comparison.
     
  5. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
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    You're right, I was making a point. Still, it is relevant. Meaning, trying to shortcut the actual designed-in procedure is generally not that wise, not matter how slick you think it may be. Sure, American 141 was an extreme example, but certainly still a relevant point.
     
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  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Moving the fuel tanks in the 360 was not done so the belts could be changed easier.It was done for space issues. The original design had no access panel and it was still intended to remove the engine for service. Aftersale division (SAT) asked for an access panel and production department fought against it for cost reasons. The car was very nearly produced without it. It was a very big departmental battle.
     
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  8. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    A lock and swap is pretty simple. Unless you are fanatical about checking/setting at every change, and/or replacing seals, I really can't see much of a downside. As I said, not my approach, but it's reportedly been done often without problem.
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    And that really has zero to do with the debate of engine removal.
     
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  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Really? I don't know the history, but the 360 sure doesn't appear to have been designed for a simple engine drop and then an access panel added.
     
  11. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    LOL.
     
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  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    No. I just made that **** up. Who the **** ever said the motor needs to be simple to remove? I must have missed that.
     
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  14. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    Eric
  15. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
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    This is exactly the way to describe it.

    While a 355 is not an airplane, the moral of the story is trying do a significant procedure (they don't call it a major for nothing) other than how it was designed is, more times than not, a very bad idea, bad practice, and eventually leads to bad results.
     
  16. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    While I am in favor of removing for various reasons I'm not sure that can be proven that not pulling engine leads to issues. This board is however FULL of damaged engines folowimg an engine out major though.

    Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  17. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    And according to Johns Hopkins 250,000 people die annually from medical errors in the US. Other studies put it as high as 440,000, the 3rd leading cause of death behind heart disease and cancer.


    Whatever you do, don't go to the doctor.



    Are you seriously suggesting the rate of incompetent work is lower with the engine in place vs taking it out?

    Sorry, thats just idiotic.
     
  18. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    I think what Eric is saying is that screw ups are caused more often by lack of competence or other mistakes as opposed to procedures. As I said earlier, if all you are trying to do is a lock and swap, I can not see where doing if with the tank out would be any more difficult than doing a lock and swap through the wheel well of a 3x8. Not to mention that "factory procedure" for adjusting the valves on a 3x8 is with the engine in the car. A task surely done simpler with the engine removed.

    The thing is, what is being discussed here is not how the job is done. It's how you gain access to the to do the job.
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Big difference but you wouldn't know that because you have not done it. I have.

    Lots of people here are experts at something they have never done. Like I said, I was not going to criticise the method without knowing about it so I did it. Others would be wise to do the same.
     
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  20. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    No no no not at all. Where did you get that? Your just itching to clash lol.

    I was saying failures are not specific to leaving engine in as was hypothesized. It happens with engine out too, all the time.Its not an engine in or out thing... it is a competence thing.

    Take it out its better access to more things that need attention. That's obvious.
     
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  21. WATSON

    WATSON F1 World Champ
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    Just pull the ****ing engine out and do it right.
    How hard is that to understand?

    Can't afford the process? Don't buy the ******** car.

    That is all
     
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  22. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    I would be more inclined to ignore the salesman’s remarks as they are likely bs.
    Leave the engine in and drive it is likely better than doing belts via the fuel tank.
    Then in 1 year do the belts properly, but only if there’s no obvious oil leaks, etc which could be hurting the belts.
    Many things from the engine can leak down on the belts from water pumps, rad pipes, pwsteering lines, you may or may not notice them and they are hurting the belts. If nothing like this is happening an extra year of belt use(in my mind) would be safer than doing the belts the way they suggested and assuming all will be good for another 5 years.
    Just because you do not see coolant for example on the ground does not mean the belts are not getting showed with it.
    These engines are so hot within that engine bay many leaks will go in noticed until you pull the engine and see the burnt Liguria lines running down the engine.

    You will likely see this when you do the engine drop procedure and then can fix the problem.

    Although I just made a mistake doing mine for the 3rd time in over 15 years, mistakes can and will happen. What I can tell you and my experience is very limited to an f1 355 is that many many things were fixed correctly every time I pulled the engine and would not have even been noticed if I had done it with the tank method.
     
  23. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    Just for giggles my salesman (ferrari dealer) told me my car had no CD player even though I thought it did.
    And it does which I confirmed when I got it home.
    When I bought the car the 360 was new and he had been at the dealers for many years.
    The salesman is not the shop foreman or even the junior mechanic.

    I am not sure I would ever trust the salesman to do my engine service.
     
  24. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I have been on here a long long time and I have not seen many 355s come out worse. But it does happen as I am living proof.
    I would argue it came out better for a year and then got damaged. This could have happened by doing nothing as well.
     
  25. steved033

    steved033 F1 Rookie
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    Apr 12, 2017
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    sometimes it's a fabricated failure for clicks! :rolleyes:o_O:p
     
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