Berlinetta Boxer Register | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Berlinetta Boxer Register

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by msdesignltd, May 3, 2004.

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  1. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

    Mar 9, 2004
    1,258
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Bob Lebenson
    I wish this thread had been here a few weeks ago, because I could have been an “honest” member of the Boxer registry (if only briefly). However, the 512 BBi I owned for four years departed then, as part of my acquisition of the 365 GTC. It was S/N 46647, all red exterior, with about 33K miles.

    Anyway, I’m going to try to post a shot of it. (Somehow, I often screw up posting pics.) Unfortunately, the guy in the picture detracts from its overall appearance.
     
  2. Nigel_641

    Nigel_641 Karting

    Apr 7, 2004
    52
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    DB
    Hi,

    I bought the BB as is, but mods were done by Modena Motorsport, Langenfeld, Germany. They additionally built a see through air filter housing and I commissioned a catch tank for the engine fumes, so the engime room does not oil up so much.

    DB
     
  3. Frank R. Masiarz

    Nov 10, 2003
    126
    Full Name:
    Frank R. Masiarz
    Hi..........

    My name is Frank Masiarz, owner of 1977 Boxer 23005.

    The Berlinetta Boxer Resource at:

    www.masiarz.net/bb_resource

    was designed to provide information on Boxers and serve as a register. At one time, I had Boxer owner information in the register displayed for public access [names, serial numbers, addresses, phone numbers and e-mail addresses]; over the span of four years, only 50 owners joined the register. Major security concerns among the registrants brought an end to the public register service and I removed the registration link from the site as well.

    Still trying to decide the best method for creation and maintenance of a Boxer Register on the Web. Please provide some feedback concerning a format which would provide a service and yet not create 21st Century paranoia concerning identity and vehicle theft.

    I have created a comprehensive owner questionnaire, which I can send to anyone with an interest in joining the register. I also distribute "Boxer Notes" to everyone on the register e-mail list from time to time. Please contact me either through the Boxer Website "Comments" link or through this chat site with your comments, suggestions and requests.

    Thank you.

    Frank.......23005
    www.masiarz.net/bb_resource
     
  4. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2003
    17,952
    NYC. / E. Hampton
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Very interesting and Informative Site, I have gone back and viewed it for a few years now, Nice to have you on board. Could you by any chance tell us how many of each 365/512/512i boxers are in this country currently.
    Thanks and Keep that site Going.
    direct pics at
    http://www.maranello.cc/german/pirro/SN/50667/512BBi.50667.008.htm
     
  5. atheyg

    atheyg Guest


    I recall in the archives a Forza article stating about 275 Boxers in the US, with 75 being 365/512BB and the rest BBi's.
     
  6. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,704
    Frank,

    I'm (sadly) not a Boxer owner (I have a 348), but I'll give you my opinion anyway! As I'm sure you know there are a number of registers on the web for specific Ferrari models. The general principle seems to be that the register should be about the cars (s/n, year, colour, history and so on) and the owner info kept private.

    Jonathan
     
  7. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,873
    Both Frank and his registry have been very helpful, and my information is listed on his site.

    The value of a Registry increases when there is only one. Multiple registries raises the potential for dilution and fractionization of reporting. I believe that the value of funneling all Boxer information through one site is real, and suggest that we do so. Frank has invested much work and love into his site, and there seems to be little need for duplicative effort.

    Thank you.

    Jim S.
     
  8. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2003
    17,952
    NYC. / E. Hampton
    Full Name:
    Michael
     
  9. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    1978 512BB Red with Black int sn 24445
     
  10. Frank R. Masiarz

    Nov 10, 2003
    126
    Full Name:
    Frank R. Masiarz
    Hi........

    Just looking at the awesome collection of Boxer pictures submitted by owners. Pinnin512 shows a flat-12 engine with twin alternators ?!?

    News to me !!! Anyone else have twin alternators on their Boxer engine ?? Is this duplication a BBi feature ?? I have a 1977 BB and it has one alternator on the left side of the front of the engine.....and, by the way, it is impossible to loosen the belt tension adjustment bolt !?^*#!

    Frank..........23005
    www.masiarz.net/bb_resource
     
  11. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2003
    17,952
    NYC. / E. Hampton
    Full Name:
    Michael

    Mine is #49473....A few months ago one of the idiot lights in the speedo housing lit up and showed a symbol that the owners manual read left alternator warning light. Took it to wide world of cars and they found that the previous owner had the belts and alt's replaced opposite. meaning that the right alt. pulleys were thread the way the left were supposed to, that is why the left alt. was throwing the belt upon revs. 2 new belts and swaping the right alt. with the left alt. corrected the prob. WHEW!...anyway I am sure that this 84 512 bbi does have 2 alt.
     
  12. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,831
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    Posted pics at the boxer owners thread.
     
  13. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2003
    17,952
    NYC. / E. Hampton
    Full Name:
    Michael
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If it's a Ferrari, it's equipped with a V-12 engine. By 1969, this had become as commonly accepted a fact as E=mc2 or peanut butter sticks to the roof of your mouth. In fact, the major factor that separated the Dino line of cars from "true" Ferraris was the fact they were not equipped with a V-12. (Instead V-6 powerplants provided motivation for the attractive mid-engine two-seaters.)

    As the Seventies dawned Mauro Forghieri, one of Ferrari's most talented engineers, convinced Enzo Ferrari that a horizontally opposed 12-cylinder engine had some advantages over the V-12 for racing. Given the go-ahead, he immediately proved correct, as Ferrari flat-12's were among the most successful racing engines of the 1970s. By the time the decade was done, they had captured four Formula One world driving championships and four world manufacturers' championships.

    Of course, the horizontally opposed engine configuration is almost as old as multi-cylinder internal combustion engines. Several engines of this type were produced before the turn of the century, and later both Porsche and Volkswagen became famous for their "flat" engines as did BMW with its motorcycles. Two benefits of the so-called "boxer" design are low center of gravity and inherent, push-me/pull-me balance. In most passenger cars, these advantages were offset by the obvious disadvantage: enormous width, particularly when the cylinders were topped with complex overhead cams.

    Ferrari, though, was never much concerned about packaging efficiency, while width and complexity weren't looked at as the drawbacks they might have been had the car been intended for mass production. Certainly, mass production was not a consideration for Ferrari, which built a couple thousands cars a year, but basing its road cars on its successful racing cars was a definite consideration.

    So Ferrari eschewed its traditional V-12 for a flat-12 when it came time to design the road car that would replace the 365 GTB/4 Daytona. That vehicle also eschewed the traditional longitudinally mounted front-engine configuration for the mid-engine concept.

    By that time critics were vociferous in their claims that Ferrari was late in developing a mid-engine street car. Lamborghini had debuted its mid-engined Miura in 1966, and many auto journalists immediately accepted it as the most advanced passenger car in the world. Not only did it look fantastic; it also had a very Ferrariesque V-12 engine squirreled away behind driver and passenger. Why, some writers wondered in print, was Ferrari allowing itself to take a back seat to an erstwhile tractor manufacturer?

    These queries did not go unheeded at Scuderia Ferrari. Designers, engineers and artisans began hand-crafting a concept car that would eventually be exhibited at the 1971 Turin automobile show. Its wheelbase of 98.4 inches was within fractions of both the Lamborgini and the Corvette Stingray. (Enzo Ferrari showed open disdain for both models, but, always the competitor, he never lost sight of them.)

    Fitting the colossal flat-12 engine into the car proved to be an enormous headache, particularly since Ferrari insisted that the vehicle still carry both driver and passenger. (A precursor show car from Pininfarina had placed the driver's seat in the middle of the car in an attempt to gain some packaging efficiencies.) One of the solutions Ferrari engineers arrived at was to mount the engine above the transaxle. At first this seemed like an abomination and a clear affront to the laws of physics, which clearly suggest that a weighty item like an engine be kept somewhat low in a vehicle. But when one considers that a horizontally opposed engine like the Boxer 12 is not nearly as tall as a V-12, the gods of physics were quieted somewhat.

    Getting the considerable power of the engine to the transaxle was accomplished by a series of gears mounted aft of the engine. The clutch was also mounted aft. Looking forward below the engine were the differential, then the five-speed gearbox, which had a fairly direct linkage to the gated shifter in the passenger cabin. Obviously, a portion of the engine extended behind the rear axle, but the center of gravity was between the front and rear wheels, which was what the designers intended.

    The term evolution was a familiar one at Ferrari, so it is not surprising that the 365 GTB/4 BB (the "BB" referring to Berlinetta Boxer) borrowed some of its structure from the Dino. Suspension was double wishbone all around, and the "double" theme was carried through with twin springs at each wheel. Steering was by rack-and-pinion. As with most Ferraris, its frame was constructed of welded steel tubing, while its bodywork was a mish-mash of fiberglass, steel and aluminum.

    And what a body! With a knife-edge prow and a roof barely 44 inches off the pavement, the Boxer had the intimidating looks of a drug cartel hitman. The front overhang was exaggeratedly long, while the tail nipped off abruptly behind the rear wheels. The design's tiny vertical rear windscreen was hidden behind graceful sail panels and a visor that would later be knocked off by Toyota. This was the Ferrari solution to the knotty problem of how to house the engine in a mid-engine car.

    At the center of the car, quite literally, was the "boxer" flat-12 engine. Aside from the horizontally opposed configuration, there was nothing remarkable about the engine. It simply offered the expected: belt-driven dual overhead camshafts, Weber carburetion, and it used the same pistons and connecting rods as did the V-12 Daytona engine. At 4.4 liters, its displacement was almost identical to the engine in its predecessor as well, and horsepower was up just slightly, from 352 to 360. Both peak horsepower and peak torque occurred lower in the rev-band, however, making the Boxer a more driveable machine.

    It was also a machine with riveting performance potential. Road testers reported zero to 60 mph sprints in as little as 5.3 seconds and claimed top speeds of more than 175 miles per hour. While at the absolute limit the Boxer could be a handful, it had enough designed-in understeer to keep the ham-handed and inattentive from crashing rear end first into roadside obstructions. Though it had minimal luggage capacity - about enough for a bathing suit and a toothbrush - it was capable of long distance touring without beating up driver and passenger.

    When it came time to revamp the 365 GTB/4 BB in 1977, it wasn't performance but comfort that got more attention. Displacement was brought up to nearly 5-liters (301 cubic inches) through judicious boring and stroking, and the compression ratio was bumped up a bit, but more onerous exhaust emissions and noise standards ate up most of the potential power gains. Ferrari again listed the peak horsepower at 360, though the peak occurred yet lower on the tach. Dubbed the 512 BB, the revised car was somewhat easier to drive and live with, while producing very similar acceleration and top speed numbers.

    Any way you look at it, the Boxer carried the prancing horse of Ferrari into uncharted territory, and before it went out of production, it became in the public's eye the essence of Ferrari.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,831
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    So does anyone know what they did on the 512tr/m to lower the engine?
    Since a regular testarossa has 4 valves but a similar engine transaxle layout
    and radiators in the back with a heavier percentage of the weight over the rear wheels, will a boxer with modern wider rubber especialy at the rear outhandle a testarossa.
     
  15. steveirl

    steveirl Formula 3

    Dec 29, 2003
    1,163
    ireland
    Full Name:
    steve
    I have just bought my first ferrari, and its a boxer, collecting it in approx 4 weeks, have to build extra space to my garage before I can take it home.
    steve
     
  16. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    mine is 48729; 1983 BBi black with tan interior...purchased June 23, 1987. Currently not running well, being worked . Not for sale. Sorry, I do not have any pictures available for posting right now.
     
  17. Eddy1

    Eddy1 Rookie

    Nov 5, 2003
    4
    Hello.

    I would appreciate some information from owners of Ferrari Boxers. I am considering importing one from Europe and would like to know which is the best model to choose, the carburated or injected model as far as performance and reliability is concerned. I would also like to know how Boxers compare to some of the more modern Ferrari cars, such as 348, 355, or 360.
    Thanks.
     
  18. Robb

    Robb Moderator
    Moderator Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Feb 28, 2004
    13,895
    Full Name:
    Robb
    I didn't think ANY more boxers could be brought into the U.S.?

    What cars are off limits for conversion for street use?

    Even the 959 can now be brought over and federalized, so I don't know the rules. What are they?

    Robb Williamson
    Centennial, Colorado
    www.williamsonimages.com
     
  19. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,831
    FL
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    Sean

    Why would you import with all the attendant hassles and expense, when given the value of the dollar a more reasonably priced car can be bought here. Lately boxers have been going to europe.

    From experience a BBI will out accelerate a 355 from about 40 to 140. The brakes and tires are not the same as more modern fcars, but fine for the street. The boxer is a more raw experience than any of the newer fcars. Think early 1970's lemans on the street.
     
  20. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
    I believe that cars 25 years and older can be legally imported into the U.S. without being modified for Federal EPA/DOT purposes as long as the model was never sold by the factory in the U.S. Of course, you will still have to pass whatever emission requirements are imposed by your state. You can find the rules for this in the U.S. DOT website. I remember doing the research when thinking about importing a Boxer back in 2000.

    I have owned both a 512 BBi and my current 365 Boxer. They are both great cars but I love the sound and feel of those carbs in the 365.
     
  21. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    The BB512i was the fastest of the three series of cars in all areas from what I have read.
     
  22. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    be carefull on the importing process. i would advise calling dick merritt and getting his nod prior to buying a euro located car.

    just my advice.
     
  23. Eddy1

    Eddy1 Rookie

    Nov 5, 2003
    4
    I'd like to thank you gentlemen for your replies. I would like to add that I live in Canada and my choices are limited. It is for that reason that I looked towards Europe. However, If I can find a great Boxer inthe US, I'd be more than happy to grab it.
     
  24. Steve B

    Steve B Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    521
    Naperville
    Full Name:
    Steven L. Biagini
    In the book "Ferrari Berlinetta Boxer" by Mel Nichols, he claims that the 365 Boxer had 20 bhp more and was faster (at least in top speed) than the 512BB. He quotes factory engineers' test results for this assertion. However, this book was written prior to the 512BBi's introduction.

    Horsepower figures are essentially the same for all three cars (365BB = 344 SAE net, 512BB = 360 DIN, 512BBi = 340 DIN); the 512s have more torque, but the 365 has a significantly higher final drive ratio and a higher power peak and redline. Tests of cars in the U.S. magazines need to be carefully analyzed due to emissions conversion and other issues. For instance, in the June 1975 Road & Track test of a 365 Boxer, slow 0 to 60 times of 7.2 seconds were due to a sticking clutch causing the testers to launch at low rpms, not give full throttle until 3000 rpms were hit, and not rev the engine to more than 7000 (the redline is 7700). Even with these limitations, the 60 to 100 times compare favorably with the 512BB they tested in 1978.
     
  25. atheyg

    atheyg Guest


    The 512BB is faster with 20 more HP than the 512i and less weight, you have also quicker instant throttle response with 12 butterflys vs 2 for the BBi, the BBi was designed to provide better low end.
     

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