Schumacher is great beyond any doubt. Alonso is the hero of the moment. I think the Iceman actually has the greatest potential of any active F1 driver. He will drive for Ferrari before he is done.
Kimi, Alonso, JPM, Trulli, Massa - those guys are the new crowd. Tomorrow's Schumachers, Senna's, etc. Today, they win occasionally in spite of their newness and immaturity to the sport. Tomorrow, they dominate bacause of their experience and maturity.
Michael is by far the best, IMO he is better than Senna and all those who came before him, bar none. He has some sort of a magic to always do the best possible. I see no other driver on the grid who has it. I think Kimi is very very good. Montoya is not AS good, but he is still a top shelf driver. I don't think Alonso is any better than Button, Heidfeld, Webber, Barrichello, Sato, R. Schumacher, Trulli, Coulthard and Fisichella. There are a few drivers who stand out as being bad. IMO Villeneuve is one of them (not saying he was always bad, but he is now). Personally I think the only one besides MS who stands out as having "something extra" is Kimi. He seems to have a fire I don't see elsewhere except in MS.
LET THE FLAMES BEGIN! IMO, people *always* look upon someone who is no longer with us in a more fond light than they should. Are Jimi Hendrix and Stevie Ray Vaughn really THAT good guitarists? Better than folks who live today? Was John Lennon and Curt Cobain really such good songwriters? I think when someone dies they are put on a pedestal. Senna was great, but I think MS is better.
I think to put MS at the all time top of the heap, he needs to do one more team swap and make champions out of them... I'd love to see MS and Rossi at Red Bull with Ferrari engines, and win. Best new blood..... Kimi by a mile, but by CHRIST does he need some PR skills. Alonso is good too.
Mike you Obviously know very little about guitarists OFF COURSE JIMI HENDRIX WAS AND IS THE GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEOFF COURSE JIMI HENDRIX WAS AND IS THE GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATESTST GREATESTOFF COURSE JIMI HENDRIX WAS AND IS THE GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATESTOFF COURSE JIMI HENDRIX WAS AND IS THE GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATESTOFF COURSE JIMI HENDRIX WAS AND IS THE GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATESTOFF COURSE JIMI HENDRIX WAS AND IS THE GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATESTOFF COURSE JIMI HENDRIX WAS AND IS THE GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST GREATEST SO THERE Image Unavailable, Please Login
Michael won 13 races last year, six races two years ago. Rubens has won twice in each of the last two years, including the inaugural Chinese Grand Prix in 2004, coming after his spectacular win at Monza, with Ferrari finishing one-two in front of a screaming Tifosi. Who can argue that the two Ferrari drivers are not the best Formula 1 drivers out there, hands down!
Mike, Being a die hard Senna fan I had a tough time accepting that Michael's stats do indeed put him above the rest including Senna. As of 04 I finally accepted that you can't argue the statistics and that he was the greatest ever of any generation (Fangio, Clark, Stewart, Senna ....). But this year and possibly 2003 has me questioning this. I still think he is possibly the best ever but the argument isn't as strong. The one thing that has always kept me from believing this 100% is that he always had the supreme advantange in equal equipment and never had a world champion teammate. Senna beat a multiple world champion (Prost) in the same dominant car. I always balance this out with Michael's ability to build championship winning teams which Senna was never known for. Senna could have never built Ferrari or McLaren into a winner. He had to have the best equipment. However, the 2003 season and this season has highlighted one weakness of MS and that is his qualifying positions and wins in a less than competitive car. Forget about the rules changes, I agree that they have directly hurt Ferrari. But laying aside why each racers car was uncompetitive (Ferrari with rules changes, McLaren and Williams with bad designs, bad timing and bad engines). Senna won races and fought for champoinships is 2nd tier machinery. He should have never been battling Prost for the title in 93 in the Mclaren Ford which was truely aweful. Yet despite being down at least 45 hp in an ill handling chassis he garnered a pole or two and won 5 races to finish second in the title chase going down to the wire. The same in 94 before he was killed. Although MS won the first three races Senna garnered pole position in all three races. And we won't don't even need to mention his stolen victory at Monaco his rookie season in the rain where he clearly beat Prost in the dismallly underfunded Toleman. And his wins and poles in a Lotus were never matched by his teammates. Both 2003 and this season have re-opened the question about who is greater. When MS has a less than dominant or near dominant (think Hakkinen years) he is not even close and makes a multitude of mistakes. The Ferrari is certainly unreliable this year but it's speed in both versions wasn't that far off the pace yet MS is stuck in the middle of the grid in most cases. It was rare that Senna was ever stuck in 12th place in any race no matter how bad the car. It's an unaswered question for me much like those who think (and I am one of them) that GV may have gone on the become one of the best ever (statistically speaking). We will never know. But look at the list of people who followed Senna at Williams winning titles.....JV and DH. Clearly one could argue that Senna would have won those titles in the same cars and possibly taken a title or two away rom MS in the Bennetton. Who knows ???? In the end, statistically speaking MS is the greatest driver ever and in the end statistics are the measure above all else. Regards, Jon P. Kofod www.flatoutracing.net
I like the guitarist argument better YES, SRV and Hendrix were that great. And Cobain was a pretty good song writer, especially Hole's "Live Through This". If you don't think he wrote those songs for Courtney Love, listen to it again, only envision a guy singing instead. That, along with the fact she hasn't done s**t since he died. As for the F1 drivers, one down season for Ferrari is no reason to reassess who reigns as the sport's top talent. It's Michael, hands down. And until he retires, it will continue to be Michael. And I'm someone who has been critical of him over the years.
Michael Schumacher is the best F1 racer to ever walk the face of this planet. No one comes close to his achievements.
My favourite F1 driver is Senna, but i think that the best f1 driver ever is Shumacher (not Ralf of course jajajaja). And about the MS successor, I´m spanish but i think that kimi is better than Fernando. Here in Spain there´s an excess of Alonsomania!
It must be crazy there now, and fun for you fans to have Alonso doing so well. Is the whole country blue and yellow?
When Schumi retires from Ferrari, and IF he still wants to race, I think he could do it again with Toyota. These guys have the money, the tallent, and the drive to do things right. The only thing they are missing right now is the driver. IF, Michael were to drive for them it wouldn't surprise me one bit when they won a championship.
I agree with SRT Mike, it seems like we as a society has a habit of immortalize someone that passed away before their time. I notice that most of the discussions tends to surround Senna and Schumacher, a lot of the people just somehow forgot that before Senna, there was a little dude named Jim Clark. If I have to draw any sort of comparisons, I would probably say that Senna is more like Clark and Schumacher is more like the great Juan Manuel ***io. From the pure statistic point of view (Not counting overall wins as different driver has different longivity, in Senna and Clark's case, they passed away before their abilities diminished. And with MS still racing, his stats are due to change still.) JMF has the greatest winning percentage (JMF-43%; JC-35% , AS-25%, MS-38%) and I believe, greatest pole percentage (JMF-53%, JC-44%, AS-40%, MS-29%). Not to mention, the shortest career as he didn't start to race until he was 38 and retired at 46. (JFM-7 full seasons:5 WDCs, JC-7 full seasons:2 WDCs, AS-10 full seasons:3 WDCs, MS-13 full seasons: 7 WDCs) and also, drivers in his era has the greatest fatality rate if they were involved in an accident. Needless to say, as discussed in many threads before this one, it is not possible to pin point one driver as the greatest of all time, I can only come up with 4 that I believe will qualify as the greatest drivers of all times on anyone's list. As for the current corp of drivers, MS is still the best, until someone else can take the title away from him and that driver will have to win the title at least one more time before he can be consider as the best driver in today's Formula One.
I think he and Alonso are the best in F1 right now, but I totally disagree about Kimi going to Ferrari. I don't think he would be willing to deal with all the politics and infighting that goes on at Ferrari once Michael retires. He is far more the cold, corporate machine, strip club antics aside, to fit in at Ferrari. Drivers will shy away from Ferrari if Jean Todt and others within Ferrari ressurect the squabbling and finger pointing that has hurt the Scuderia in the past.
To be honest.......I think someone could make a plausible argument that Kimi is as good, or better, than Michael. Aside from this year, Michael has *always* had a more dominant car than Kimi. Yet, Kimi still brought it down to the wire in 03. And that was with the *3rd* best car.
This is a tough one ... I guess the responses here would be by the best pilot that you have been exposed to - people watching racing in the 60s would plump for Clark while today's generation would give Schumacher the nod ... All worthy choices but extremely subjective to choose between... For the fun of it, I would like to think about it from analyzing the parts as well as taking the whole... Raw Speed - Qualifying 1. Ayrton Senna 2. Jim Clark 3. Mika Hakkinen There will never be another Senna - the man was magic when it mattered - the dying minutes of qualifying when Senna would pop out for the final run and everyone would hold their breath waiting for the inevitable pole position. Jim Clark was also supremely fast frequently starting from Pole. Mika was dynamite when the car was supreme.. he was rarely out-qualified by David. Michael also deserves a place here for consistently fast qualifying Raw Speed - Race 1. Jim Clark 2. Michael Schumacher 3. Bernd Rosemayer Jim Clark would lead virtually all his races unless there were car related problems. Michael has had several epic drives and has the most # of fastest laps ever. Bernd Rosemayer drove Auto Unions for a brief period in the 30s before his untimely death. His raw speed had an unearthly quality about it. Gilles Villenueve was one who always gave 100%. Too bad he didnt have the best car for most of his career Wet weather Skills 1. Rudolf Caracciola 2. Ayrton Senna 3. Michael Schumacher Caracciola (drove for Mercedes Benz in the 30s) was the original "regenmeister" (Rain master) - he had that special feel that made him truly special in wet conditions. Senna and Schumacher are also exemplary in the wet. Ranking Caracciola above these two masters just indicates the quality of Caracciola. Race Craft 1. Alain Prost 2. Michael Schumacher 3. Niki Lauda Le Professor Alain Prost waas the consummate thinker - he would win at the slowest possible speed like Jackie Stewart a decade before. And he was only a little bit slower than Ayrton was.. Michael was the master of thinking strategically while racing at ten-tenths - he could adapt to any problem or any strategy. Niki Lauda was fast in his first F1 sojourn but he was the strategic player when he came back in his second sojourn. Bravery 1. Gilles Villenueve/Stefan Bellof 2. Ayrton Senna 3. Nigel Mansell Villenueve demonstrated tremendous bravery in taking it to the 11/10s very often. Stefan Bellof was utterlessly fearless. He was always on the edge of disaster. Senna and Mansell were extremely brave drivers who drove with no fear and balls out always... Car control 1. Gilles Villenueve 2. Tazio Nuvolari 3. Ayrton Senna Villenueve could recover from slides like no one else .. perhaps his snowmobile racing helped hone his skills in this regard. Nuvolari was able to do stuff in cars that others could only dream about. Senna was famous for his throttle control and feel during the wet Physical Fitness 1. Michael Schumacher 2. Juan Manuel Fangio 3. Ayrton Senna (in the 90s) Michael comes out as fresh as a daisy while the opposition would look as if they ran the half-marathon. Fangio raced in a time when the drivers were fat but the tyres thin - but the man was indefatigable - practice from endurance racing in south America before his GP career. Senna was a weakling but worked himself into one of the fittest ever. Determination/Will power 1. Ayrton Senna 2. Michael Schumacher 3. Tazio Nuvolari Senna was the most intellectual of the lot and his determination to win at all costs was frightening to witness sometimes. While Senna could be classified as obsessive (particlurlarly w.r.t. Prost), Michael was determined and thoughtful - he works harder than the rest and does not just depend on his considerable driving talent. Tazio drove because of intense burning fire within him to compete. He raced at Monza in the early 20s in a bike race just after he had broken both legs. He raced even when he was coughing up blood from the gas fumes Best Driver - overall I would give my vote to Tazio Nuvolari (Nivola) - for his car control - for his bravery - for more than 30 years of racing at the top drawer level - Epic Nurburgring and Mille Miglia drives - stuff of legends - Rated by Enzo Ferrari as the best ever....
I am a huge MS fan and he put in a brilliant drive at Imola. However, as I was watching, I couldn't help but have little doubt that Senna would have gotten past Alonso over the course of 12 laps with a car 2 seconds a lap quicker (taking nothing away from Alonso's defensive drive). I think for me, that is just one recent example of why I give the nod to Senna over MS.
Best F1 driver after MS (todays drivers) Kimi is #1 in my opinion, then Alonso and Montoya. Fisichella, Barrichello, Coulthard, R. Schumacher, Trulli and Button are right behind. Massa and Klien are still young + they're improving. Top F1 drivers in the future? maybe... I would like to see Villeneuve driving this years Renault or McLaren. I'm sure he can still win races.
I've said it before and i'll say it again,Schumacher can't carry Senna's jock strap as a driver. His record is only because of the lack of competition and the fact that's he's had a way longer career than Senna.
Well part of being the best F1 racer ever is the ability to stay alive. Senna could not stand the pressure, lost control of the car, and killed himself. Michael does not need to carry Senna's jock strap... because Senna did not have one. Don't misunderstand me, Senna was a great human being and a good racer. But he cannot stand up to Michael's skill, pace and determination.
