Best F-1 Drivers Who Never Won Title

Discussion in 'F1' started by David Lind, May 10, 2012.

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  1. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
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    All this talk of Gilles Villeneuve - well deserved in my opinion - got me to thinking ... who do F Chatters think are the best ever F-1 drivers who never won the title? My list (in chronological order):
    Stirling Moss
    Dan Gurney
    Ronnie Peterson
    Gilles Villeneuve
    Rubens Barichello

    Other opinions? Let the games begin!
     
  2. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    653
    I'd put Chris Amon and Carlos Reutemann in there.

    Paul M
     
  3. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

    Jun 6, 2011
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    With all do respect, what is Barrichelo doing there???????

    Gilles and Moss are to me the 2 best ones never to have won it...i might add, they are far better then most of those who have.
    Ickx, Peterson and Alesi are next in line, and to me, also a lot better than many W.Champions
    Peter Collins, Von Trips, bandini, Pedro Rodriguez, Amon, Berger, Massa....also better than some who have won it...

    As for those who won the DWC, i´d say Damon Hill was the worst i ever saw, in the years he drove, in equal cars he would not have made it into the top six.
     
  4. ScuderiaRossa

    ScuderiaRossa Formula 3

    Mar 22, 2001
    2,013
    +1 re: Barichello!
     
  5. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    653
    I liked Alesi but wouldn't put him up there.

    As for Damon Hill; he got the drive by being fast, was close to Prost in '93 and Senna in '94, beat Villeneuve the younger in equal cars (who then won it), pushed MS close in '94 when MS's car was unusually fast, nearly won for Arrows and did win for Jordan.

    There have not been any 'bad' WCs; there have have been some who were as fast as their contemporaries and then had a good car one year, and by 'good' I mean an all-round car that may have been more reliable when not the fastest.

    Paul M
     
  6. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Not really, that title chase was only close because of the FIA's meddling and ridiculous 2 race ban on MS which allowed Hill to make up tons of ground.
     
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  8. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Alesi was 10 times the driver Damon was.
    In 1994 Damon never came close to Shumi, it was a farse...In the ende Shummi had 5 G.P less than damon, amongst desqualifications, suspensions, etc....the whole thing was a farse to give Damon the title...fortunatly Shummi put an end to it (even if not in the best possible way but justice was done)....Obviously nobody is going to win a W.C without being good but, there is good and there is GOOD, and Damon was afr from the second. In his time, Alesi and berger, Hakinen and Herbert, Shumi, they all where a lot better than him, even Barrichelo, Coulthard and Irvine where probably quicker.
    Fittipaldi for example was milles behind Ickx or Peterson, yet he won the title twice!!!
    Hakkinen was no better than Alesi, but he had the luck to drive the best car, while Alesi got stuck with a piece of crap....had it been the other way around, jean would be twice WC and Hakinen 0. This is why to me wining a W:C proves nothing, as Gilles said, he doesn´t need to go to Paris to grab a trophy to know he´s the best.
     
  9. Bill Sawyer

    Bill Sawyer Formula 3

    Feb 26, 2002
    2,108
    Georgia
    How do you define best? So many factors go into winning that its hard to judge. You have to have a good car, a driver who is fast yet easy on equipment and lucky to name a few. Right now, the most accurate measurement is probably race wins and world championships. Everything else is speculation.

    That said, I am a huge Gilles Villeneuve and I was fortunate enough to watch him in person in Formula Atlantic and Formula One. He was truly the fastest, bravest driver I ever saw. Gurney was also impressive in person.
     
  10. OhioMark

    OhioMark Formula Junior

    Feb 16, 2006
    413
    If John Love of SA wouldn't have been driving year old or older cars his entire career
    he might have made some noise. He would have won the South African GP in the mid-60's
    if his car would have carried enough fuel but he had to pit etc....
     
  11. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Well, i´m already jealous of you!!! Watching Gilles "in the flesh" mut have been something memorable.....it´s said that the biggest batle ever to happen between two cars was in 77, between Gilles and Keke in F.Atalntic, even bigger than Dijon 79, unfortunatly i think there is no footage to prove it.
    I think each one of us has probably a different way to determine who is the best. I have a number of items i always observe in various rivers:

    1-Raw speed in a single lap
    2-Car control (how late can he brake and still hold the car, avoid accidents when the acr as lost grip, spining and pointing in the right direction, etc)
    3-Balls
    4-Hability to drive in the rain
    5-reaction to the green light or red switching off
    6-Speed during the whole race
    7-Hability in overtaking
    8-Technical skills
    9-using brain during race
    10-behaviour in the track twards the other drivers

    not exacly in this order.
     
  12. 375+

    375+ F1 Rookie
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    Certainly Moss and Gurney.

    Barichello, not WC material. Damon Hill was mediocre at best, he happened to be in the right place at the right time.

    My personal heroes are Peterson, Villeneuve and Alesi. All were blindingly fast with terrific car control. Had Alesi not backed out of his contract to go to Williams(instead of Ferrari) he would have won multiple championships and dozens of GP's.

    Most underrated in my mind is Carlos Reutemann, incredibly fast and exceptionally smooth. He out drove Gilles on a number of occasions but could be inconsistent.
     
  13. 375+

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    John Love was not WC material.
     
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  15. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    excelent taste in drivers!!
     
  16. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Well, that and the illegal fuel rigs and illegal traction control that Benetton was using in 1994... not to mention the deliberate collision in Adelaide...
     
  17. Tomax

    Tomax Karting

    Apr 27, 2004
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    #15 Tomax, May 10, 2012
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
    Eddie Irvine

    Unlapping himself from Senna as a rookie, and then in 1999 almost winning the title in an under-developed Ferrari F1, when he started the season as the #2 driver. One of the fittest drivers, a solid business guy before he got into the car, and the James Hunt moulding marks.
     
  18. 375+

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    Disagree. I like Eddie but not WC class. One of his wins was a gift by Schumacher stand-in Mika Salo to improve his WC chances. This sacrifice by Salo has gone unrecognized for too long, it would have been his only GP victory.

    Then Schumi upon his return muffed it on purpose, couldn't let Eddie steal his thunder giving championship to Hakkinen.
     
  19. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
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    Didier Pironi, Gilles V.
     
  20. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

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    Right, we forgot Didier, he lost the championship by 5 pins while missing the last 5 grand prix...it was in the bag!!! And he clearly desserved it, in 82 , after Gilles death he was second to none, in fact i regard him at the time as good as Prost an Piquet. Fact is, after what he did to Gilles, i´m happy he didn´t win it!!!
     
  21. 375+

    375+ F1 Rookie
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    +1
     
  22. mcimino

    mcimino Formula 3
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    Peter Revson would have been one cool WC.
     
  23. 375+

    375+ F1 Rookie
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    Impeccable taste in women.
     
  24. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Moss, Gilles, Gurney.....liked Peterson, Reutemann and Alesi also...
     
  25. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    moss, gurney, for sure.
    pironi yes as well.

    but on my list i would also include coulthard, and berger, and peterson, villeneuve.

    and possibly patrese, regazzoni, rindt

    i understand those who included reutemann, but i never liked him. in the 1978 season, he was the only driver in the whole line up that did not give me his autograph. have disliked him ever since.
     
  26. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Proven, although insignificant effect on the WDC.

    Unproven, just because Senna was angry that MS was, quite frankly, handing him his ass doesn't mean that the B194 had TC. (Yes I know about the programming in the ECU, still doesn't mean they used it, FIA agreed - and they had a vendetta against MS that year). Ayrton was just frustrated after getting owned by Michael in front of his home crowd in Brazil and lashed out about TC blah blah blah.
    Unproven it was deliberate. Plus Hill won the two races where MS was forced to sit out under the FIA's farcical declaration, so had that not been happened it wouldn't have been close, regardless of the collison. MS's 2nd place at Silverstone was also disqualified post race. The entire thing was a joke.

    However I agree that Hill was a good driver and Frank Williams was a moron for letting him go.
     
  27. 375+

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    Rindt was WC, the only posthumous World Champion.
     

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