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Best F1 Pump Protection

Discussion in '360/430' started by lkstaack, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. lkstaack

    lkstaack Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2020
    152
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Lars
    What do you think is the best way to protect the F1 Pump?

    As many know, the F1 Pump Relay is prone to failure. I believe this is because the F1 pump occasionally calls for more power than the 30A relay can reliably provide. The relay eventually wears out, causing the expensive F1 pump to run continuously until it overheats. Some of those with F1 transmissions will replace the relay prophylactically every other year or so (cost about $8US). It’s an easy replacement.

    Another option, as described by Aldous Voice (aka “voicey”), replaces the regular 30 amp relay with a 50 amp Challenge Stradale relay and socket (cost about $25US)
    https://aldousvoice.com/2015/10/15/ferrari-360-f1-relay-upgrade. Not only can this relay handle more power, it switches .5 ms faster. This is a relatively easy and inexpensive solution, though it requires rewiring of a relay socket. I haven’t read any first-hand accounts of those who have done so.

    One final option I'm aware of is purchasing and installing the Scud Ing Swiss “Smart EMT F1 Relay ECU” (about $235US) https://www.scuding.com/Shop/en/ecu-solutions/101-smart-emt-relay-ecu.html. Scud Ing Swill claims improved performance and reliability with this solid state device over a mechanical relay. They assert that mechanical relays can be harmful to the TCU due to power spikes, with a 50A relay potentially more dangerous than a 30A, but their solution is safer for the TCU, provides variable power up to 250A according to the demands of the pump, and is quicker. It is also plug and play, plugging directly the 30A relay without any rewiring. I have read a couple first-hand accounts about this device, all of them positive.

    So, I request that those who have used one of these three options chime in with your experiences and recommendations for saving the F1 pump.
     
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  3. Jb-Slow

    Jb-Slow Karting

    May 11, 2020
    60
    I have the Scud ing smart relay, I didn't have a problem before install and I still don't after, so..... Yeah. The little led monitor thing is cool though, having a little advanced notice will be cool if something ever happens.
     
  4. Skidkid

    Skidkid F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Aug 25, 2005
    6,664
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    John Zornes
    Your failure drive is kind of wrong but the conclusion is correct. I think you stacked them up pretty well. Honestly, 50A vs Scud Ing Swiss is probably a push for reliability. One is easy to install costs a bit more; the other is cheap but a bit more work. Pick one and go.
     
  5. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
    727
    Shorewood, MN
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    In my opinion, the best way to go is the solid state device, the Scud Ing. I chose to go with the one without the blinking and beeping. I just wanted it to function as a plain old relay.

    Kevin
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,590
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    There are upgraded 30 amp relays, too. I have had one in my 575M for 10 years with no problems.
     
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  8. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula Junior

    Jun 27, 2017
    490
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Taz, can you post a link for the upgraded one?
    Do you happen to know if the 2009 MY came with an upgraded one?


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,590
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    #7 tazandjan, Mar 19, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  10. lkstaack

    lkstaack Karting
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    Dec 9, 2020
    152
    San Diego
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    Lars
    Even back in 2010, Juri reported that the Tyco V23134-B57-X266 "was produced by Tyco for a specific manufacturer and is not sold via electronic parts distributors or from Tyco directly".

    BMW Part # 61-36-1-393-403 cross-references to V23134-B57-X152.
     
  11. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    33,590
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Lars- Yup, but there is one (-X266) in my 575M. Bulletproof so far.
     
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  13. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula Junior

    Jun 27, 2017
    490
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Thanks Taz, my car is a 2009, so I’ll just stay with what I got until there’s a problem.


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  14. wbt

    wbt Karting

    Nov 28, 2014
    157
    New Zealand
    I replaced the original grey relay with the 430 red version. I fitted a new relay socket of correct size (very easy with correct crimp tool) and added flyback diode protection across the motor terminals and the relay coil. With the flyback affect suppressed, sparking across the relay terminals is removed therefore almost no risk of the terminals welding themselves shut (which causes the F1 pump to run continuously). 3 years later with no issues.
     
  15. AandSC

    AandSC Karting
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    Dec 12, 2016
    215
    Jax, FL
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    Allen
    I went with the Scud Ing Swiss and have been happy with my decision. No worries and notification of any issues you might not otherwise be aware of.
     
  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    3,366
    Uk
    Out of interest does someone have a pic of the location of the F1 pump relay.
     
  17. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 25, 2010
    1,218
    Seattle WA
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    SKIM
    I like to keep it simple. Upgraded to Juri pump motor. 50amp fuse & 70amp relay.
     
  18. lkstaack

    lkstaack Karting
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    Dec 9, 2020
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    Lars
    Select the Scud Ing Swiss link above. They have pictures on the site.

    Sent from my SM-G781U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  19. lkstaack

    lkstaack Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 9, 2020
    152
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Lars
    Did you get upgraded components from Juri's Ebay site?

    Sent from my SM-G781U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  20. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2010
    1,218
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    Just the pump motor with the heatsink. I sourced the 70mp relay (which is used for land rovers) and a 50amp fuse.... These are cheap.
    In my opinion, the Scud ing system is overkill. Just maintain/service your system and you won't have issues.


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  21. Flea7

    Flea7 Formula 3
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    Feb 25, 2010
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    SKIM
  22. Snapshift

    Snapshift Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    May 31, 2020
    116
    Centralia IL
    Full Name:
    Lyle D. Pahnke
    I use the Scud ing Swiss relay F1Pump relay monitor system version 3 with the monitor lights. Kinda reassuring that it is quiet and always showing a green LED. Simple to install but I like the simplicity and peace of mind. So far, no F1 issues. May be overkill I don't know but if it saves the F1 pump from self destruction it probably will have paid for itself.
     
  23. becausephilchow

    becausephilchow Formula Junior
    Sponsor Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 26, 2016
    489
    Hong Kong
    I have the Scuding Solid State Relay. I chose the basic one, because I was never going to look at it anyways, haha.
     
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  24. captglen

    captglen Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 25, 2007
    1,756
    West Palm Beach, Fl
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    Glenn L.
  25. honda corse

    honda corse Karting

    Jul 20, 2011
    54
    Vancouver BC
    Full Name:
    Mark
    +1 for scud Swiss
    I had it installed to diagnose a shifting issue when the car was hot. I used the error codes to chase down the issue to a faulty accumulator. It works as advertised, really nice product.
     
  26. nickorette

    nickorette Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 19, 2017
    200
    Toronto
    Use the scud inc. Have it hidden in relay box and set to only make beeps if there is a problem
     
  27. catdog

    catdog Karting

    Aug 18, 2010
    147
    Hi,

    I got the scud ing. relay for my 2007 f430 and it seemed to make the car shift slightly better but it gave me a warning sign and actually the car failed two weeks later. I changed the accumulator tank and it ran fine for a while but I went back to the original relay. 1 month later my F1 developed a recurrent fault that the local F1 dealer couldn't diagnose and I had car modified to manual transmission by EAG.

    I got another scud ing relay for my 2009 Maserati GranTurismo S and again seamless install but got a transmission fault signal 2 weeks later and had to switch back to stock relay. Car drove perfect with no F1 issues for another year until I sold it.

    Both felt great with a subtle improvement in overall function. The quality of the manufacturing and support is excellent. In my case the underlying F1 hardware may not have been perfect so the Scud Ing relay made things difficult, though it may have helped if I had an excellent F1 mechanic available to troubleshoot.
     
  28. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

    Oct 18, 2017
    727
    Shorewood, MN
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Water under the bridge at this point, but perhaps you should have purchased the basic version or turned off the notifications, thus simply using the unit as a solid state relay. Its not clear to me why you had to change back to the stock relays because the Scud Ing was giving you an error notification? The relay would still have functioned normally, and changing back to the stock relay would not alleviate whatever underlying problem the Scud Ing was indicating.

    Kevin
     

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