Best final full ICE car under $500,000? And over $500,000?

Thecadster · Jan 13, 2021

We’re getting to the absolute end of the era boys. Some are perfectly willing to transition to an electrified car, and all the extra performance that will come with it. Others, like me, are simply not interested. Regulations are hastening the process, much more so than market factors. I look for the US to force every vehicle to be electric (or at least electrified) by 2030. Hard to devote massive R&D to ICE at this late stage, so what we see, and what we know about, is probably what we’re going to get.

So you know the drill...if you could only have one under $500,000 and one over $500,000, what would it be?
Note that I am specifically targeting last of the breed. For example, were we selecting amongst all ICE cars under $500,000, I would be selecting a 05/06 Ford GT. That said, here are mine:

under $500: 765LT
The total combination of massive power, super low weight, and class leading thrust is impossible to deny. Obviously, there is still a competitor hanging out there in the form of the 992 GT cars. We shall see if they have enough.

over $500: 812 VS
This car will be bananas, and sadly only the super cool kids will have access. What’s not to like though? They take a near perfect car (812) and inject it with Ferrari steroids. Yes, please.

JB1997 · Jan 13, 2021

Under 500K - Aventador SV
Over 500K - Carrera GT

If only Ferraris... Under 500K - 430 Scuderia 16M
Over 500K - F50

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dustman · Jan 13, 2021

Issue I have including cars like 765lt or Pista etc is they already dont sound good, while the next gen’s will likely be NA with elec assist, meaning they could sound wonderful. COULD, wishful thinking.

< $500k STO

> $500k Aventador SVJ Roadster

ScrappyB · Jan 13, 2021

Is the choice limited to pure ICE cars that are in current or recent production (ie. their ‘final’ offerings) or any ICE car made in history?

Shark01 · Jan 13, 2021

Like the OP, I already own one of the under $500k icons (Ford GT), and an epic mid-engine V12 gated shift convertible (Lamborghini Diablo Roadster).

If I needed to buy a newer one before all cars become vacuum cleaners it would probably be a Speciale, Lamborghini EVO, or a Porsche GT3.

There are no recent over $500k cars I’m interested in.

kimwizzzuuu · Jan 13, 2021

I recently traded in speciale for a 800 miles sls black series. I’m pretty sure I’ll get a speciale later on to keep. SLS bs and cgt are my grail cars.

Thecadster · Jan 13, 2021

ScrappyB said: ↑

Is the choice limited to pure ICE cars that are in current or recent production (ie. their ‘final’ offerings) or any ICE car made in history?
Click to expand...

Either. Frankly, I am just trying to talk cars and stay clear of P&R. Mainly though, I was interested in the last of the breed cars. I mean F40, Porsche GT, Enzo, F50, and the like, are sure to have their fans, but they don’t really compete from a performance standpoint with the modern cars. Nevertheless, those cars are amazing for what they are. That said, the 765LT will beat a 05/06 Ford GT in the 0-124mph by over 4 seconds (sub-7 versus sub-11). I am focused on final/best versions.

Jaguar36 · Jan 13, 2021

Thecadster said: ↑

they don’t really compete from a performance standpoint with the modern cars.
Click to expand...

If you're excluding hybrid/EVs I don't see how you can score a car on performance as those (LaFerrari/918) will soon if not are already exceeding any pure ICE. That gap is just going to continue to grow. Therefore I'd be looking at the historic great cars, things like the F40 the McLaren F1 or even some of the pre-war stuff like the Bugattis, Duesneberg or Cadillac V16s, or below the $500k mark things like the E39 M5, the Alfa 4C, the 70s Mustangs

Sargepug · Jan 13, 2021

This is why I intend to hold onto my 458! Last N/A V8 Ferrari ever! As far as my pics, 458 under (obviously) and my over ill circle back later w/ that.

tbuff · Jan 13, 2021

Over 500k McLaren F1 and a trust fund for the maintenance
under 500k Speciale

Natkingcolebasket69 · Jan 13, 2021

Jaguar36 said: ↑

If you're excluding hybrid/EVs I don't see how you can score a car on performance as those (LaFerrari/918) will soon if not are already exceeding any pure ICE. That gap is just going to continue to grow. Therefore I'd be looking at the historic great cars, things like the F40 the McLaren F1 or even some of the pre-war stuff like the Bugattis, Duesneberg or Cadillac V16s, or below the $500k mark things like the E39 M5, the Alfa 4C, the 70s Mustangs
Click to expand...

Maybe an 8c but the 4c isn’t that rare

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VelocityTexas · Jan 13, 2021

Under, my 458.
Over, Maserati MC12

Thecadster · Jan 13, 2021

Jaguar36 said: ↑

If you're excluding hybrid/EVs I don't see how you can score a car on performance as those (LaFerrari/918) will soon if not are already exceeding any pure ICE. That gap is just going to continue to grow. Therefore I'd be looking at the historic great cars, things like the F40 the McLaren F1 or even some of the pre-war stuff like the Bugattis, Duesneberg or Cadillac V16s, or below the $500k mark things like the E39 M5, the Alfa 4C, the 70s Mustangs
Click to expand...

I am heavily interested in collecting the very best final stage ICE cars. For example, I am super intrigued by the Senna. While that car will, in time, be destroyed by the new generation hybrid McLaren’s, it has no equal in terms of strictly ICE McLaren’s. That is a meaningful distinction. I think I am going to love the 812 VS. I would expect that car to be a fully enhanced version of the F12 TDF. Once more, it will be bettered by any number of future hybrid versions, but if someone lusts for the best, final NA V12 sport tourer, they would be hard pressed to find a better example.

I set aside money every month to pipe into cars that fall into the specific category of ICE cars that will never be exceeded. Performante is a good example. Lamborghini will never offer a better race bred AWD NA V10. That’s it. That’s the best/final version. The STO will be the best 2wd version of that platform.

The older cars certainly have their place, especially from a collectibility standpoint. It’s just that the older cars typically do not provide the same performance, the same modern tech, or the same level of fit and finish. They might be more desirable overall, but most of the time, they do not offer the same high level driving experience.

dustman · Jan 13, 2021

Thecadster said: ↑

I am heavily interested in collecting the very best final stage ICE cars. For example, I am super intrigued by the Senna. While that car will, in time, be destroyed by the new generation hybrid McLaren’s, it has no equal in terms of strictly ICE McLaren’s. That is a meaningful distinction. I think I am going to love the 812 VS. I would expect that car to be a fully enhanced version of the F12 TDF. Once more, it will be bettered by any number of future hybrid versions, but if someone lusts for the best, final NA V12 sport tourer, they would be hard pressed to find a better example.

I set aside money every month to pipe into cars that fall into the specific category of ICE cars that will never be exceeded. Performante is a good example. Lamborghini will never offer a better race bred AWD NA V10. That’s it. That’s the best/final version. The STO will be the best 2wd version of that platform.

The older cars certainly have their place, especially from a collectibility standpoint. It’s just that the older cars typically do not provide the same performance, the same modern tech, or the same level of fit and finish. They might be more desirable overall, but most of the time, they do not offer the same high level driving experience.
Click to expand...

Then the Senna X should be high on your list given the mission.
What’s your time horizon for meaningful value appreciation? May take 20+

Eilig · Jan 13, 2021

< 500k: Speciale
500k-1M: Tdf
> 1M: F50

Thecadster · Jan 13, 2021

dustman said: ↑

Then the Senna X should be high on your list given the mission.
What’s your time horizon for meaningful value appreciation? May take 20+
Click to expand...

Honestly, I am not thinking about appreciation (or depreciation). I am mainly thinking about what cars would I enjoy the most putting 1000-3000 miles a year on. I grew up in a pretty modest home. I am already going to die with 10X more than I ever expected. I’m playing with house money. I just don’t like hybrid cars, and I am fascinated by these last/best cars.

Here’s another car I would love to target eventually. It’s not necessarily last/best, but it is probably the best car for what it is: a Singer Porsche. Those cars are fascinating. Modern engine, transmission, braking, and suspension work, along with cutting edge fit and finish in a classic package. I would much rather have one of those than an SF90 for example.

wthensler · Jan 13, 2021

Thecadster said: ↑

I am heavily interested in collecting the very best final stage ICE cars. For example, I am super intrigued by the Senna. While that car will, in time, be destroyed by the new generation hybrid McLaren’s, it has no equal in terms of strictly ICE McLaren’s. That is a meaningful distinction. I think I am going to love the 812 VS. I would expect that car to be a fully enhanced version of the F12 TDF. Once more, it will be bettered by any number of future hybrid versions, but if someone lusts for the best, final NA V12 sport tourer, they would be hard pressed to find a better example.

I set aside money every month to pipe into cars that fall into the specific category of ICE cars that will never be exceeded. Performante is a good example. Lamborghini will never offer a better race bred AWD NA V10. That’s it. That’s the best/final version. The STO will be the best 2wd version of that platform.

The older cars certainly have their place, especially from a collectibility standpoint. It’s just that the older cars typically do not provide the same performance, the same modern tech, or the same level of fit and finish. They might be more desirable overall, but most of the time, they do not offer the same high level driving experience.
Click to expand...

Not unlike @Thecadster....my mini collection consists (or will consist) of a 2013 458 spider, 2022 F8 Spider and either the 2022 EVO RWD Spyder or the STO. Don’t care about depreciation and will put mileage on each, swapping back and forth. That’s the current plan.

soulsea · Jan 13, 2021

Under:

Speciale
911R
997.2 RS 4.0

Over:

CGT
Speciale Aperta
Singer

If I can only have one then RS 4.0 and CGT

dustman · Jan 13, 2021

Thecadster said: ↑

Honestly, I am not thinking about appreciation (or depreciation). I am mainly thinking about what cars would I enjoy the most putting 1000-3000 miles a year on. I grew up in a pretty modest home. I am already going to die with 10X more than I ever expected. I’m playing with house money. I just don’t like hybrid cars, and I am fascinated by these last/best cars.

Here’s another car I would love to target eventually. It’s not necessarily last/best, but it is probably the best car for what it is: a Singer Porsche. Those cars are fascinating. Modern engine, transmission, braking, and suspension work, along with cutting edge fit and finish in a classic package. I would much rather have one of those than an SF90 for example.
Click to expand...

Got it, I misunderstood the ask as an appreciation play vs enjoyment. Senna will do, no need for the X.

Sargepug · Jan 13, 2021

Sargepug said: ↑

This is why I intend to hold onto my 458! Last N/A V8 Ferrari ever! As far as my pics, 458 under (obviously) and my over ill circle back later w/ that.
Click to expand...

Ok, my over is an MC12! I've been up close and personal with one, to the tune of my son years ago sitting in it's front seat. Same owner has an Enzo and they were side by side at a recent show, however, the MC is the closest thing i've ever seen to a race car on the road. Feast your eyes!
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Jaguar36 · Jan 14, 2021

Thecadster said: ↑

It’s just that the older cars typically do not provide the same performance, the same modern tech, or the same level of fit and finish. They might be more desirable overall, but most of the time, they do not offer the same high level driving experience.
Click to expand...

The problem is in 20-30 years the cars you mentioned will be just as dated from a performance and technology standpoint as an F40 is today. Think of a car with an early CD based Nav system. Nobody looks back at that and is glad its there. Just like in the future nobody is going to look at the infotainment in an 812 and be impressed by it having Apple Carplay (which won't work by that point anyway). Same thing from a performance standpoint. Just like nobody really cars what the pinnacle of carbureted engines is. The 812 VS's performance will be bested by a mass market hot hatch EV in a few decades. What will matter is the driving experience, and I think that will be judged better on older cars. (sept maybe the Senna, that is exceptional)

Shadowfax · Jan 14, 2021

As final stage pure ice performance I'd go 765, sto, gt2rs, gt3rs, Pista, Senna gtr.

Jo Sta7 · Jan 14, 2021

Under $500k: (performance) 765LT, (desirability) Speciale

over $500k: (performance) Chiron, (desirability) F50

italiafan · Jan 14, 2021

<$500K—812GTS
>$500K—F12tdf

Spider68 · Jan 14, 2021

Under 500k. 911 GT2 RS, Pista Spider
Over: TdF ; 250 Cali spider

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