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Best Replacement Tires F12?t

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by x z8, Dec 31, 2019.

  1. x z8

    x z8 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    654
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    The F12 is notorious for losing traction due to the excessive power. In the past the Michelin Super Sports were best. Since then a number of new tires have come out. I love my Michelin Cup tires on my GT3. Can these work size wise? Is there anything better? I want ultimate grip.
     
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  3. lamborarri

    lamborarri Formula Junior
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    Nov 15, 2015
    436
    I find that wider PS4 and PZ4 work the best. Anything above that creates lots of noise. F12 is different kinds of cars than GT3, I wouldn't run competition tires.
    F12 doesn't tune to be like the GT3. It's a tail-happy car as it should be.
     
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  4. x z8

    x z8 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    654
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    What is PZ4? Is this a Pirelli tire? I’m not a fan of Pirelli.

    The MPS4 I’m told wears better but not as grippy as MCup tires. I presume the MPS4 are better than the MPSS. Right?

    You are saying the MCup tire do not come in the right size (and or aren’t good for this car). Right?
     
  5. lamborarri

    lamborarri Formula Junior
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    Nov 15, 2015
    436
    Pirelli Pzero 4th version. They are pretty good actually. Have nothing to do with the earlier Pzero's.

    I ran 20/21 set up on 991.2 GT2RS Cup tires on my F12 before but I didn't like the tire noise. If you are staying with oem tire size, you can also try R888R.
     
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  6. mthompson2376

    mthompson2376 Karting

    Feb 2, 2017
    151
    North East England
    Full Name:
    Mark Thompson
    I have just gone with new Pirelli PZero4, very very happy, was running the the Michelin 4S, which was an excellent tire, but did tend to make the car a little snappy, lots of grip until it snapped. For me, and I am in the UK, the PZ4 offers the same grip as the 4S but slides are more progressive and controllable when the tire does break away....seems to work really well on the F12. With all tires, especially on the F12, make sure they are warmed up, minimum above 35C before pushing the car. Again I find the PZ4 warming up a little quicker. Once warmed up I can be very almost (95%) flat in 2nd on the the PZ4.

    I also have the lightweight forged wheels and titanium bolts which makes the car feel a little sharper, (loads of threads on losing un-sprung mass and the benefits).

    I would go for the new PZ4 or 4S, really not much in it.


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  8. Bamsefar

    Bamsefar Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2012
    394
    Sweden
    I love Michelin PS4S, just replaced the old Pirelli I got with my FF from factory. PS4S in my mind is the better tire. But it is after all somewhat personal...
     
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  9. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,993
    Bournemouth, UK
    Objectively it is the best tyre in its segment, according to the numbers:

    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-EVO-Summer-Tyre-Test.htm

    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Auto-Bild-Sports-Car-Tyre-Test.htm

    Pirelli's engagement in F1 has rendered it the best tyre company, when it comes to sporty driving. I use summer Pirellis in my sportcars, Pirellis/Michelins/Bridgestones in my saloons and Goodyears (nothing beats those Goodyear Wranglers) in my off roaders.
     
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  10. Shamsta

    Shamsta Rookie

    Nov 25, 2019
    39
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Robert S.
    I guess we all hear different things. I've always heard Michelin Cup 2's supercede Pirelli's and was about to replace the stock Pirelli's. Good or bad move?
     
  11. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,492
    France
    Except that these tests sample the PZ4 in "sports cars" variant which competes with the Pilot Sport 4, which is different from the very high performance segment where the Michelin tyre is the Pilot Sport 4S (which is the successor of the Pilot Super Sport and completely different from the PS4 - I wonder why Michelin went for such confusing namings).
     
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  13. x z8

    x z8 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
    654
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    I remain confused between going with Pzero4, PS4S, and the Cup2’s.

    I love my cup2’s on my GT3 and GT4.

    I have never liked a Pirelli tire, but the comparison tests say it’s better (does not include the Cup2 and the PS4S)- just than the PS4. The comparison test was not on a Ferrari, let alone an F12. How irrelevant does that make it?

    I have Pilot Super Sports on my 458 and other Porsche’s and have always been happy.

    Help me... LOL
     
  14. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,993
    Bournemouth, UK
    There is the Corsa variant, which is the equivalent of the 4S. The Corsa is better than the 4S.
     
  15. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,492
    France
    Could be, but the tests you quote are irrelevant to support this claim ;)
     
  16. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2013
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    The problem with this test is they tested the Michelin Pilot 4 not the 4S. There is a big difference. The 4 is basically a performance 3 season tire; whilst the 4S is a summer tire. I suspect the differences between the PZ4 and 4S would be minor.

    I don't think Corsa = 4S. There is the Corsa and also Corsa System and I think Pirelli says these are track tires that are capable of being driven on the road. Michelin more or less says the same thing about their Cup tires.

    I think you have to understand these companies will try to find ways to distinguish their tires. So you will see making a direct comparison is often difficult because they will look to offer slightly different blends of attributes. Which is why its important to understand your driving conditions and even your preferences in tires.

    In my own seat of the pants testing, I find the Michelin my preference for the kinds of roads around here (North East USA). However, I have the PZ4 also and they really are fabulous- no complaints.

    I don't think you could go wrong with the PZ4 or 4S.
     
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  17. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,993
    Bournemouth, UK
    The plain P Zero 4 is akin to the plain PS4. Then there is the PZ4 Corsa, which is akin to the PS4S and then there is the Trofeo R, which is akin to the Cup 2.
    The Pirelli System is not a different tyre, just a combination of different sized tyres front to rear.
     
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  18. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    I did not see PZ4 Corsa on Pirelli website, they just say Corsa. I think the problem is these tires often slightly leapfrog and overlap each other which makes it tricky. I would not directly compare PZ4 with PS4. I think its more on the level of P4S- the P4S is a lot more forgiving than the Corsa tires, which all are more track focused, like the Cup tires. Thank you for the information on the Corsa system- but it does seem like something distinct no?

    I had the Corsa System tires on my 430 Scuderia and I loved those.

    https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/car/find-your-tyres/tyre-catalogue/summer
     
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  19. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
    5,992
    East
    They do, Cup 2's are awesome.
     
  20. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Mo Derna
    So may get a new set this year too. Have the OEM MPSS. Michelin been working great so from this thread I gather the MPS4S is the newer version (extreme dry but non track). Does it come in the direct F12 OEM tire sizes front/rear and does it have the "K" designation? I thought that when they came out the answer to both was no.
     
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  21. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    May 29, 2019
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    So far I don't find that Pirelli has caught up with Michelin, not even in terms of MPSS vs. PZ4. Unfortunately, the Cup tyres are not available for the F12 size wise, so no, that will not work. You could try the 812 MPS4S tyres (yes they do exist) but that will give you a wider front. I think it's a load of snake oil that you need RWS for that wide of a front. The 599 GTO ran a 285 front, and had no issues. Other than that, I still think the MPSS is the best tyre for an F12 stock wheels. I definitely find that they grip better, wear better and make less noise than the PZ4.

    As for the GT3 RS tyres. If you get a set of 20/21 inch rims, they will fit with no issue. It's probably a pretty good match for a Cup tyre in fact. Both front and rears will go up one cm in width, but the F/R bias should stay close to stock. Diameter is more or less OE, so no issues there either.
     
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  22. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie
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    The MPSS does of course still come in the Ferrari spec tyre. Be aware that you need K2 rears for the F12. The K1 is for the GTO.

    The MPS4S does not come in a K spec for the F12. There's a chance that a non-K MPS4S will offer less grip than a K spec MPSS as both thread width, compound and thread pattern is a bit different on the K spec. The K2 MPSS for the F12 is hard to beat, and unless they put out a K spec MPS4S I think it's pretty much as good as it gets - and that's not a bad thing because the K2 MPSS is pretty darn good.
     
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  23. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,993
    Bournemouth, UK
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  24. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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    I think the 812 front wheel is wider than F12b by ½ inch. I think the 599 GTO was a real beast of a car to drive and they said you had to keep all the electronics on to help it remain controllable and this was mostly from the increased front end grip. I think they further enhanced this concept of much more front end grip balanced with various helpers by adding the RWS on the TDF. I think the stock F12b fronts are 255 and the 812 are 275 so I'm not so sure if the 812 tires would fit or would even be advisable. I also found the MPSS a very good tire for the F12b.
     
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  25. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 Veteran
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  26. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Thank you kindly. Appreciate the clarity from you and Caeruleus. Was thinking would be missing out on the newer Michelins but I really like the K tires specified for the car.
     
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  27. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    5,993
    Bournemouth, UK
    In my experience Michelins are better off the go. Pirellis are better when they get warm though. After 3-5 miles of hard driving, the Pirellis are much better tyres, whereas the Michelins just overheat and drop off. It has to do with the tarmac as well. I guess that's why people like the Michelins better on the road and the Pirellis on trucks.
     
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  28. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
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    Feb 24, 2016
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    The same happened with me despite being very happy with the MPSS. Concerning the Pirellis PZero from 2017 that I had on my F12 before, I already expressed here my opinion and found the differences to be night and day when compared to the 2018 MPSS. Nowadays apparently the Pirellis are better than what they were before but because they scared me a lot a couple of times I continuo faithful to the MPSS that are proving to be much more trustable because they have more grip in every circumstance as well as being less noisy at very high speed.
     
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