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Best tires for driving GT4 Dino

Discussion in '308/328' started by jlonmark, Jun 9, 2020.

  1. jlonmark

    jlonmark F1 Rookie

    Mar 29, 2005
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    Hey guys, a good friend has a 75 GT4 Dino and he drives it A LOT! As it should be. Right now he's running the old style Michelin XWX balloon tires- which are period correct. But they wear out pretty fast (maybe 10,000 miles). Any recommendations/suggestions?

    Thanks!
     
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  3. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
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    those tires are available from @Longstone Tyres in the UK (sponsor here). Not sure about any US suppliers. I believe Vredestein Tires makes something that fits... Hopefully someone else can chime in. I use an upsized 16".
     
  4. KeithS

    KeithS Karting
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    Dec 30, 2008
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    Pirelli Cinturato P7's are on my GT4. Wear, grip and ride all good.
    Keith
     
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  5. NoGoSlow

    NoGoSlow Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2014
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    I have the 14" Vredsteins on my 1975 GT4. They are perfectly fine, but are nearing the 10 year old mark so I plan to go back to the XWX's when I replace them. My decision is 80% cosmetic, wanting to be period-correct and the XWX has such a classic tread pattern.

    One thing to keep in mind - the old balloon tires are a component of the suspension geometry calculus. You can go with larger rims and lower profile tires, but you will need to consider adjustments to the total solution if you want a winning combination.

    I recently checked Longstone and Coker, and the Longstone inventory was a little newer (still almost a year old). It's a pain spending $300+ for a tire that has already lost 10% of its useful life before it is even mounted on the rim.
     
  6. sltillim

    sltillim Formula 3
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    Seen great videos on these! A lot of stratos run them in the historic rally races
     
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  8. jlonmark

    jlonmark F1 Rookie

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    All great ideas! I’m running pirelli centurados on my 1976 930. No complaints. The jury rests


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  9. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    While the sidewalls are certainly part of the suspension equation, Ferrari seems to have swapped between 14" and 16" wheels without making any other part number changes. You should still be in the "as the factory intended" envelope.
     
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  10. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    Hi

    Have you seen this film about 308 GT4 tyres

    i don't get involved with 16" tyres in the film though we offer the P7 on this web page https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/ferrari/308-gt-4-2-2.html

    I wouldn't fit 16" wheels though. I would suggest that there were several suspension changes as they went through the 390mm TRX wheels on their way to 16" wheels on the 328.

    i bet the steering was adjusted as well. The steering will be heavier and slower on a 205/55 than it would be on 205/70.

    Fitting a more period P7 will be better than a modern tyre, but still i personally would stick to 14". Each to there own, i guess a lot of people like the look of the bigger wheel.
     
  11. Portofino

    Portofino Karting

    Sep 17, 2011
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    I have a 208 GT 4 , on 6 1/2 rims 14 dia
    The window sticker says XDX for 195/70/14
    It came in 2018 with rock hard 2001 tyres , they weren’t cracked just no give .When you got your fingers across the blocks and squeezed the blocks did not move such was the hardness .
    Had the wheels refurbed and looked long and hard at replacements.
    In the end I went for Yokohama’s as they feel soft you can grip and squeeze the blocks .
    Done two classic rally’s with them .
    I know Dougal is a fanboy of the older classic pattern XWX for the 308 guys but the cost is one thing and in my mind there is always a nagging doubt about how things tech wise has moved on .Appreciate the compound may be new but why not fit modern rubber ...to size of course .
    I Agree with the 14 and ballon 70 profile ....handling is still pin sharp and grippy .
    My 0.02 p worth .
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    Brake dust after 500 km s of timed stages in a day .
     
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  13. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    I don't see any suspension part number changes across the GT4 production run even when 16" wheels became an option. I don't see suspension part number changes from the 1977 GTS to the 1985 QV GTS even though there were three different tire sizes across that time. Maybe I'm missing something important, but I'm not sure what you're suggesting exactly.
     
  14. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    First choice to make is if you’re sticking with 14s or going with the 16s which were available as a factory option late in the production run.
    14s are more scarce, those with period authentic Construction are expensive.
    It’s easier to find 16s but most have a lot more grip than period tires did. Many like that but you lose the authentic handling characteristics.
     
  15. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula Junior

    Mar 27, 2012
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    I put 16" wheels and P7s on my gt4 many years ago. The suspension was slightly stiffened at the same time. I wouldn't go back to 14" although I don't have the Pirellis on any more.
     
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  16. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    What tires are you running?
     
  17. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula Junior

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    I'd have to go and look, but Bridgestone I think. There is limited availability even in 16" these days. 205/50 and 225/55.
     
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  18. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I run Bridgestones too
    Awesome grip but your suspension needs to be in good shape to take the increased loads
     
  19. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    Are you able to put a photo of hat window sticker on here. i like putting them on my web site.

    The XWX has many of the advantages of modern rubber, ie build quality modern compounds, but it also benefits from having a carcass structure that is suited to your car, where a modern tyre design is built to be run in conjunction with a modern cras very clever suspnsion and steering.
     
  20. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    Are you saying that the GT4 fits exactly the same springs and dampers as the 308 QV, and has exactly the same camber and caster angles?
     
  21. Patrick Dixon

    Patrick Dixon Formula Junior

    Mar 27, 2012
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    When I had XWXs on my car I remember them being next to useless in the wet, but maybe the 'modern' XWXs are a different rubber compound?

    On the plus side, you could drive twice round the world on them .... or something.
     
  22. Portofino

    Portofino Karting

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  23. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
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    No. How in the world did you get that out of what I wrote??
     
  24. NoGoSlow

    NoGoSlow Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2014
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    Dougal, I placed my order for some nifty new XWX rubber on Friday. Do you have any idea how long the shipments are taking for delivery to the Republic of Texas?
     
  25. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Of course the modern ones have greatly improved compounds!!

    Dunlop has started supplying our original 14" size.

    Last time Goodyear fitted to my 16" rims the guy "guessed" they were for an S2000!!
    LOL!

    Computers say the darndest things....
     
  26. jlonmark

    jlonmark F1 Rookie

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    Lucas tire and Coker tire have the Pirelli tires in stock!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  27. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    About a week.

    Have you got them yet?

    Rioting, looting and Pandemics might slow them down a little.
     
  28. Longstone Tyres

    Longstone Tyres Formula 3
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    I'm sorry i must have miss understood.

    i thought your suggestion was that all 308 GT4 through to a 308 QV had the same components. However on re reading it i think you mean:

    All 308 GT4s had the same suspention components, however later cars also offer a 16" wheel set up as an option?
    I get your point,
    well on those cars, correct me if i'm wrong, Ferrari receomended, and fitted 14" wheels because it made for a nicer road car. However if you wanted to fit 16" wheels and look like a track car and were prepared to suffer a worse ride for the sake of the look, and possibly a faster lap time on a perfectly smooth race track. I would suggest to get that faster lap you would probably have adjustable dampers and dial in some adverse camber.

    Then the first 308 GTS came out with 14" wheels. Then the moved to the 390mm TRX wheels (15.4"). TRX are extrordinary tyres. Although it is a 15.35" rim, the flange on the side of the rim is a different profile, it is shallower allowing more of the side wall to be used to absorb the bumps. Also the flange on the side of the rim is at a different angle. All this compliments the structure of the tyre cacass allowing a different shape of flex in the tyre side wall, creating less heat and deriving more absorbtion from a shallower side wall. It is clever stuff and was a land mark tyre.
    check out this page. It has pictures and everything https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/michelin-classic-tyres/trx.html

    The problem with TRX tyres was they were and are very difficult and expensive to make. As a result they didn't take of t he way it was hoped, people changed there wheels. making the demand lower so less tyre shops stocked them, so they became difficult to get, more expensive with higher risk of ending up buying older tyres, etc, etc, etc. As a result we are fortunate to be able to get them for those who want them and they are distributed by anoraks like me.

    When 16" wheels were fitted by t he factory, did they adjust the dampers or camber angle with in this period? you guys would know better than me. My guess is a bit more adverse camber and a bit stiffer.

    However, yep the later 16" tyres did learn a little from the TRX about cracss structures, but less side wall to flex just does not give as much vibration absorbtion as a taller side wall, and less flex to keep you handling progresssive. Directional stability and ultimate grip in a straight line are better, but unless you adjust your camber you cannot take advantage of the wider flatter foot print in corners, and you develop a situation where it grips like stink then totally lets go.

    take a modern Mercedes on stock wheels and fit the massive AMG wheels, the ride is badly effected
    Take BMW on stock wheels and fit the M3 wheels again the ride is bad.
    etc

    16" tyres give a harsher ride than the same diameter tyre on a 14" wheel. It is easy to test. Fit the 14" wheel set up, drive at set speed, down a road with a full cup of boiling water in you crotch. Then repeat the exersize exactly with the 16" wheel set up and see which one boils you knackers the most.
     

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