Best Used Ferrari Value in today's market | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Best Used Ferrari Value in today's market

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by lencap, Oct 19, 2011.

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  1. lencap

    lencap Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2003
    296
    Raleigh, NC
    #51 lencap, Oct 24, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    Thanks for all the posts - very helpful. As you have noted part of my task is to define the mission - hard core sports car/gentleman's GT/"classic" car pre-computers. That is part of the problem, I'm not sure which I prefer. I've driven 360s, 430s, 550s, 328s, and Testarossas. Each one I drive is my favorite at the time.

    I'm drawn to the TR for the sheer look of the car. I came close to buying 2-3 different ones, but the PPI inspections saved me from some very potentially expensive issues (gearbox problems in particular). I still love the look, but I've become extremely gloomy about the prospects of finding "the car" - hard to find the color combo with full service history and no stories. I'll continue to look.

    The other issue, as has been mentioned, is the "age" factor. Somewhere along the way the 328 got lower, the ride harsher and the air conditioner weaker than I remember 25 years ago. Although I like the look, the car is maybe a bit too older technology than I will feel comfortable over the longer term.

    And it's that reality that moved me to a 550. Found three candidates over the years, and agreed to purchase one of them. The car arrived and failed to meet my requirements after a thorough PPI. Long story short, I still don't have a 550.

    The 360s I've driven/rode in are fun machines, but I'm a three pedal guy and never warmed up to the F1. The car just doesn't do it for me for some reason - it's "harsh" in a not classic way, and for some reason the front "smile" air intake doesn't seem to be what I consider a classic sports car. Yes, it's a great car, but I'm not fully sold.

    The F430 is "the car" - most fun I've ever had driving. But the entry price still seems high given the likely depreciation in the next 4 years (my expected ownership period). Upkeep costs are reasonable (for a Ferrari) but the overall cost of ownership is hard to fully determine.

    The one car I don't have a lot of experience with is the F355. It hasn't really dawned on me that the F designation was part of the 355 model. The only other F designation is the F430 - my "dream" Ferrari. I drove the F355 a few times, found the 8K redline to be most amazing sound I've ever heard in a car. I was ready to pull the trigger once or twice, but mechanics tell me to stay clear - header replacement/various gremlins/etc. make it, according to two separate mechanics I respect, among the most expensive F cars to maintain. I still love the look, but I've been scared off.

    So, as I review my own thoughts and blend them with the advice I've gotten on this post, it seems as if the choices come to a late model (2000-01) black/tan 550 (with all the extras), or the F430. The 550 I drove was a great car, but it was clearly aimed at a GT experience, not a "my hairs on fire" experience. The F430 is hair on fire, but the total cost of entry still has me concerned.

    Any feedback from F355 owners would be appreciated, as well as that from 348 owners (I don't know why so many people don't like that model, but I can't even find one to test drive in my area).

    Thanks again for the help, as you can see I'm not being very focused or helpful in narrowing the choices. That's a problem and I realize it. By the way, I saw a mint black/tan 550 years ago while on vacation. I waited three hours by the car to see if I could find the owner and ask some questions. I never did make the connection, but that car stands out as one of the most beautiful cars I've ever seen. Same experience with a red/tan F430 spider. I did get to meet the owner and he not only gave me a ride, he let me drive. It was the F1 transmission, which I had been totally against before my ride. I must say it was an incredible machine. The only thing I don't like about the F430 is the color coded tach - I'm not a fan. My favorite dash is the F355 - clean dials, placed right where I'd put them if I designed the dash.

    Anyway, sounds like I'm talking myself into a F355. Please, put me out of my misery - someone say something nice about the F355.

    One final thing - I expect to drive this car for enjoyment and pleasure, not pure performance. 0-60 is interesting and fun, but not the primary focus. Handling, pride of ownership, "eyeball" and other intangible things matter to me. The police have a very low tolerance in my area and are exceptionally aggressive. My high speed runs have lately been done on a MV Agusta Brutale - quite a machine and the engine was built in tandem with Ferrari engineers.

    Thanks again.
     
  2. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Jan 20, 2004
    38,926
    Purgatory
    Full Name:
    Clifford Gunboat
    Wait.

    You have an MV Brutale?

    If I had 5 thumbs, they would all be WAY UP!
     
  3. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Aug 5, 2007
    5,459
    Philly suburbs
    Full Name:
    Joe
    #53 JoeZaff, Oct 24, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2011
    I have a few friends with 355s and I have spoken to F-car mechanics about them. Here is the deal, they have two potential boogiemen-- valve guides and headers. Other than that they are about as reliable and as expensive to maintain as other engine out Ferraris. There are lots of 355s on the market that have had these problems addressed. IMHO, the 355 has the most glorious engine sound EVER. The car is also quick, handles wonderfully well and has an absolutely timeless shape. In short, it is sublime. Don't believe everything you read on this site. Most Ferraris have potential grenades-- TR's have the exploding diffs, 360's have variators, 430's have header issues and the fun goes on and on. However, none of the problems are as prevalent as this board would have you believe. Only people who have problems tend to post, the vast majority who enjoy their cars without trouble aren't taking time out of their day to post. Yes the 355 is expensive to maintain, but pick your poison-- you can spend your money on maintenance or lose it to depreciation on a newer F-car. If I had listened to all the naysayers I never would have bought my Mondial or my Testarossa...that would have been a tragic mistake.

    Stop being so analytical. There is nothing rational about owning a Ferrari. If you can afford it, buy the one you've dreamed about and let fate take care of the rest. Worrying about maintenance costs, reliability, etc, is the best way to find yourself driving.................. a Porsche.

    Ferraris are about passion. Drink the kool aid, get lost in the red mist and pull the trigger.

    Life is short! Get moving!
     
  4. butcher

    butcher Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2008
    2,339
    Castro Valley, CA
    Full Name:
    Albert
    Being on the outside, the solution for me seems simple. It's been a much repeated statement, but it will hold true. Buying a Ferrari, ideally should be purely an emotional reaction. You should buy the model (or the specific car) that really "lights a fire" inside of you. Based on your statement,"the F430 is the car-the one you enjoyed the most driving." You should buy an F430 immediately (IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT). Any other car that you get, you will eventually tell yourself, that you should've gotten the F430. This will hold true, if this is truly how you feel. You have mentioned that you also have an emotional affinity with the F355. If you can't afford the F430, you should then buy an F355, that "preferably" has great documentation of service history and has been upgraded with fixes to headers, Cats, Valve Guides. However, if you truly feel so strongly about the F430, the F355 may not satisfy you in the long run.

    In my personal situation, when I was in the market for a Ferrari, I wanted a mid-engine V8 and could not afford to buy an F430, so did not consider it, and did not even drive it. I considered 308, 328, 348. However, I drove 360 and F355's and COMPLETELY fell for the F355. If you read everything there is on F-chat about the F355, most people conventionally and practically would never buy one. THIS IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM WITH A SITE SUCH AS F-CHAT. In my search for a car, I drove many different versions of the 355, including Berlinetta, GTS, Spider, and Serie Fiorano. I ended up rewarding myself with a 1997 F355 Berlinetta Christmas of 2008. I have had an F355 Berlinetta for almost 3 years, and do not feel any regrets. Regular yearly services with only some minor/moderate issues here and there. With everything this car has done and all the people I have met and befriended because of having this car, I can say that these have been the best 4 years of my life.
     
  5. Juice It

    Juice It F1 Rookie

    Sep 22, 2002
    3,233
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    I had a 355 spider and a Brutale "R" and I would only buy one of them again and it aint the 355. The few bucks more for a 360 is definately worth it. The 355 looks great but the car is a time bomb of things that can and do go wrong and cost major bucks to fix. If you are so worried about the resale value I would say 360 or 550 and maybe throw a Gallardo in to try!
     
  6. lencap

    lencap Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2003
    296
    Raleigh, NC
    #56 lencap, Oct 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes, I used the Brutale as a Ferrari "placeholder". It is quite a machine. For those of you who haven't tried a high performance Italian two wheeler, don't let the opportunity pass you by. For the cost of a major service you can buy one of these low mile machines and have a perpetual smile on your face.

    Lots of good reviews on the web - worth reading. Everything you touch is completely adjustable for the individual rider. I've owned many combustion engine machines in my life, nothing topped the Brutale. Art and machinery in one package. If you have ever thought of owning a bike - this is the one. The 902cc engine puts out 150 HP per liter at 11K RPM. The newer ones are more powerful (a bit of overkill, like the 458 Italia, but if you drive one you'll want it). It sounds even better than the specs: 0-60 under 2.5 seconds, 0-100 in 6.7. You can pull a wheelie in almost any gear. Crazy fun, but not something to try without the proper training and gear. Sad to say, that after 40 years of riding my days of sports bikes are behind me. It was fun while it lasted (Ducati 916; Moto Guzzi California; MV Agusta Brutale - nothing like Italian iron).

    The suggestions to follow my heart on the purchase is the best advice yet. The contenders, all manual transmissions, are: 512TR, F355 (I like the Berlinetta), F430 (any version). Also in the mix: 456/550 (I like being able to take my grandson with me - thus the 456). As much as the 550 could be the perfect car, I wonder if it might be too much of a "practical" car - a compromise of sorts.

    I'm getting closer to deciding - thanks for your help.

    PS: I'm proud about the tires - no whiskers left on the tires. Even got the knee down on the sliders. Not bad for an old guy.
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  7. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 30, 2003
    19,036
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Toggie (Ron)
    #57 toggie, Oct 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Wow, great bike you have there!

    My friend has the MV Agusta I'd like to buy some day: a Tamburini.
    Here is a pic of it.
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  8. lencap

    lencap Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2003
    296
    Raleigh, NC
    I got to ride a Tamburini a few years ago. Quite a ride - didn't need Viagra for a month, but I did take a bottle of Advil. Fair trade in my book.
     
  9. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    7,307
    NJ
    Full Name:
    RMani
    +1000
     
  10. cubbyman60

    cubbyman60 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2004
    360
    LA
    I know the barchetta is a little pricier and sort of a niche car, but as for a front engine v12 convertible, it seems like the prices have slowly crept lower and lower. Does anyone think that down the road, with their limited production and good looks, that the prices today will be considered "bargains."
     
  11. cubbyman60

    cubbyman60 Formula Junior

    Apr 24, 2004
    360
    LA
    I know the barchetta is a little pricier and sort of a niche car, but as for a front engine v12 convertible, it seems like the prices have slowly crept lower and lower. Does anyone think that down the road, with their limited production and good looks, that the prices today will be considered "bargains."
     
  12. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2005
    1,110
    Full Name:
    Warren
    Really it is pretty simple. Large production relates to a large and increasingly larger variation in price from the original market price for quite a few years. In the last 20 years there have been 3 - 4 supercars, of which the 288, F40 & now more so F50 are accepted as collectibles, that have some upside in the foreseeable future. Forget most of the other models except the 360 Scag and 550 Barchetta. The last car probably being the best sleeper in that period.
     
  13. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    39,849
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    Maserati Boras are now selling for the same price as Boxers.
    The train is leaving the station.
    Last call.
     
  14. canadianferrarista

    canadianferrarista Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2010
    1,336
    Calgary, Ab. Canada
    Full Name:
    Domenic
    Not because I own one, but I think the 550 Barchetta will appreciate in value over the long term.
    It is such a fun and exciting car to drive (for me), and impractical (no roof); that I think it will make it a desirable car in the future.
    I have a lot more fun, smiles and satisfaction with the Barchetta compared with any car I have driven.
     
  15. Steelton Keith

    Steelton Keith F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2009
    6,595
    Raleigh NC
    Full Name:
    Keith Hall
    LENCAP. Not sure if we have met, but there is a wealth of local info here in Raleigh. Go to the North carolina section of F Chat. Usually at the monthly Cars n Coffee at brier Creek we have 308, 328, 348, 355, 360,430, 458, Mondi, TRs.. The owners will be happy to tell you as much as possible. We also have two good resources nearby: FCI in greensboro (there is usually someone with a car at C+C) and also Apex Vintage and theose guys are straight shooters who see a lot of cars. There is such a thing as paralysis by analysis so I encourage you to find the best sorted and documented car you can find, drive it and buy it and whatever happens to depreciation/appreciation/market value SCREW IT.
     
  16. Blulagos

    Blulagos Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2010
    271
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    David Joos
    I own an F355 Spider for over a year and really love it. When I bought it, the major needed to be done and I bought it for a good price.
    A friend of mine, a very good mechanic, did the major and we changed some other parts as well in the process. It now has Tubi manifolds, Tubi cat replacement pipes and a Capristo Stage 3 exhaust. I did about 1500 miles with it since, and it really is a great car to drive. It isn't that fast, but it sounds amazing and it really is my dreamcar. Everytime I take her out, I enjoy driving her;
    I also read all the horror stories about the F355. As mine is a 96 model with about 30 000 miles I thought the manifolds would have been shot, so I bought the Tubi ones. Upon inspection though, they were still ok.
    Bottom line is that you probably don't need to believe all these horror stories, but just buy the best you can afford.
     
  17. Steelton Keith

    Steelton Keith F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 19, 2009
    6,595
    Raleigh NC
    Full Name:
    Keith Hall
    a 355 with Capristo is the sweetest sound ever. Well done.
     
  18. lencap

    lencap Formula Junior

    Nov 20, 2003
    296
    Raleigh, NC
    #68 lencap, Oct 26, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2011
    Thanks again for the replies. After retreading this thread and several others I've come to some decisions. I'm not yet ready to make a final decision, but here goes. I have a daily driver, as does my wife. Her car is a BMW 335d, a very fun ride. The instant torque is intoxicating, and tons of fun. Driving that car pushes me to a 12 cylinder Ferrari to get that torque hit whenever I'm driving. Although we are empty nesters I would like to be able to drive with my wife and grandson, leading me to the 456. As I check around it's challenging to find 6 speed 456s. I'd prefer a 456M - an even harder car to find. The 550 is easier to find, and is a strong candidate, but I'd have to give up the back seat.

    The bigger issue is the ultimate use of the car. Since either one will be a "weekender" car it seems that ownership costs, fun to drive and other "rational" thoughts are uppermost in my decision. But then I look at the 512 TR and all of that rational thought falls away left with images of the TR on posters along side those of Farrah Fawcett. Those two images occupied a large portion or my youth, and both left a long term mark. So despite the rational car choice part of me still wants the TR, with all of the upkeep and unknown repair bills. Logical, no, but emotional like Ferrari itself, yes indeed.

    Then I consider the 8 cylinder cars. Very different from the torque monster 12s, but fun in spades. The logical choice is clearly the 360 - modern, first of the "new style" cars but still with 3 pedals on the floor. The 360s are great value, high performing and lots of fun. Then I drive the 430 and become amazed at that car's capabilty. So I try to figure out how to get one. Then I become rational again and realize that the 430 is on a potentially steep depreciation curve. Rationally the 360 is the better choice. But emotionally the 430 is the one that I dream about. Then I realize that owning either of them will likely result in the potential to drive far in excess of any defensible speed. At in my area the police don't care that I'm fulfilling a lifelong dream, I'm breaking the law and they plan to stop me from doing that.

    So I take another look at the tried and true 328 - a car that is a Ferrari but with a lower performance window, and one that will still provide smiles over the miles.

    So, with your help, I've finally realized why in all these years I haven't yet bought a Ferrari - my rational mind is at war with my emotions and it's a stalemate. Seems like I have to call a mental truce and make a decision. So which is it - rational choice, or emotional one? For those who have been in a similar place, what did you decide and are you happy with your decision?
     
  19. ddnguyen

    ddnguyen Karting

    Aug 11, 2005
    247
    Orange County
    Full Name:
    Duane
    Nothing rational about these cars so you should get what makes you the happiest.
     
  20. yellowducatista11

    Aug 16, 2014
    89
    Meadow Lake, SK, CDN
    Full Name:
    Lee Douglas
    That is some of the best advise I have read regarding the purchase of a Ferrari. Bravo
     
  21. DrewH

    DrewH F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2003
    16,799
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    To the OP: There you go you are right back where you started from as you've been advised to buy a 308, 328, 348, 355, 360, 430, 456, 550 etc. lol. My advice would be to follow this forum over a period of time and listen to the different stories about them all.
     
    paulchua likes this.
  22. vracer

    vracer Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2014
    1,098
    NorCal
    Full Name:
    Richard
    Drew,
    To read all of those stories, he'd have to retire. And then he'd have to use his retirement savings to buy the car.
     
  23. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
    6,342
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    You either need to just buy a car....... or forget it.

    For Heavens sakes, how many years have you been at this with nothing in the garage.

    I have several friends that have been professing their desire for a Ferrari and are 'shopping'...... for years, but for one reason or another they NEVER pull the trigger. Not for not finding a great car, but they just can't seem to make the step. Maybe they just like to look? After all it's free. If that's the case, admit it and enjoy the shopping. That can be fun as well. Not as much as driving, but fun.

    Too much information leads to constipation.

    You've driven. You've studied. You've asked questions, ad nauseum. I've had Ferraris since my 20's and I've never regretted one purchase. Some were better than others, but at the end of the day they are just cars....... cool cars. Fun cars. But cars, nonetheless. None gave a religious experience (all right, maybe the F40 has some connection to a higher power!) :)

    I've been there and done that with pretty much everything on your list. They are all different. They have strong and weak points. None are perfect. All were fun.

    At this point, it is my experience that if you don't stop procrastinating, you will always be a shopper and never an owner, and as you said, you aren't getting younger.

    As your parents probably said, "xxxx or get off the pot"! I'm being blunt, but every day that you keep this up is one less day that you could be on the inside, driving and enjoying the experience. If you do actually step up and buy, you will undoubtably be kicking yourself and say, "Why didn't I do this earlier"?

    So stop the nonsense, pick something, check it over and write the check. There is no time like the present!
     
    tomc likes this.
  24. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    You guys know that someone for God knows why revived this thread from 2011, right? The op already bought and sold a Ferrari. Also, most of the advice in the thread is already outdated. Cheers
     
    paulchua likes this.
  25. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    This guy needs to buy a car and this thread needs to stop!
     

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