Best value in vintage Ferrari's today?

Sorry, but that theory, while it makes a great deal of sense, has not proven out.

Or maybe it has-- can you find me a nice $100k Duesenberg? Not many guys left who were dreaming about those when they were kids!

 

I think it might be time for me to actually look at some 365 GTC/4s (the 2-door Daytona "sedans") as I like their looks and are probably closest to what I can afford. Anyone know of any really, really good ones around at realistic prices? A 330 2+2 is somewhat more than I can afford for a really really good one at the moment...

 

I think a very good C/4 will put you in the same ballpark as a very good 330. Take a look @ www.heritageclassics.com. They have a C/4 that shows well, although in an unusual period color, verde medio metallico. Also, as mentioned before, check out www.365gtc4.com for cars for sale.

 

Okay, how about Auburns? I've always fancied a bobtail and they don't seem all that cheap either. Or brass-era cars?

 

There has been a lot of performance assertions in this thread, below from Batchelor Third Edition and Blumel "The V12"

365 GTB/4 352 BHP Wt. (US) 3402 9.66 lbs per hp L. 174" H. 49"
365 GTC/4 320 BHP Wt. 3814 11.92 lbs per hp L. 179" H. 50"

330GTC 300 BHP Wt. 2866 9.55 lbs per hp L. 176" H. 51"
330GT 300 BHP Wt. 3042 10.14 lbs per hp L. 190" H. 53"

The point is these cars are numerically far closer than their reputations, and their undersides are well nigh identical (excepting transaxles vs live axles). Few of any of them are set up properly and much lore is based on driving a 1/4 of a million dollar car that is correctly set up side by side with a say 50,000 car that the owner has wisely not poured a fortune to getting it to perfection. There is less than one pound per horsepower difference in the 330s and 2/13 on the 365s, their heights are close and lengths are not as different as you might believe. Similar situation with the 330s.

 

Transaxle vs. live axle is not a trivial difference. The undersides of a 365 GTB/4 and of a 330 GT are not identical at all.

Julio

 

At just under $100K for a very nice driver, I suggest that the 246GT is still undervalued. Perhaps not a strong buy in the current market, but a good buy nevertheless. Why? Performance is fleeting and comparative but great style and design........timeless. Combine that with the compelling story of the 206/246's birth (motorsports, Enzo's heart, and Pininfarina's pen), and you have what I would consider to be a perpetual classic. The Dino is among the purest designs ever put to metal, joining the likes of the Jaguar E type, Porsche 356 and Lamborghini Miura. As sculpture, it is one of Pininfarina's great works. As a usable sports car, it is brilliant. By no means slow if you know how to drive one, and forget the 0-60 nonsense, the performance is a wonderful balance of power, revs and chassis balance. You will remember the sounds from the motor and exhaust long after you shut the car off, and the veiw through the front windscreen, between the fenders, is simply stunning. For just under $100K, I am convinced that there is no vintage Ferrari experience that comes close to the 246GT for the money.

 

Agree I was noting the similarities between the 330s and the 365s

 

Having driven both, I can tell you that there really is a difference. The GTC is a better "sports car." That said, I woudn't kick a GT outta bed.

Getting back to the subject, I keep thinking back to what Tom Shaugnessy told me a while back, "The price goes up when the top drops on two seats."

Dale

 

I think the sleeper might be the 275 GTS compared to the 330 GTS, although it seems to be starting up there in price. It suffers from the same type of problem as the 4 headlight 330 GTs - some misguided people think it looks too much like a Fiat Spider. But if Fiat had produced a one-off with a 12 cyl V-12 and looking like that, how much do you think it would be worth?

DONV says .... can you find me a nice $100k Duesenberg? Not many guys left who were dreaming about those when they were kids!
I was no kid, but I'm still dreaming about that Duesey that was offered by a museum at $6500.00 (in 1962). See if the offer is still open.

Cheers
Warren

 

My own personal rule of thumb is to compare the relative value of different Ferraris. For example, for years and years, a 275 GTB 4 cam ($375k) traded for roughly 3 times a good Daytona ($125k). Ferrari made about two-thirds fewer 275s than Daytona, so this actually makes sense. (Plus 275s are definitely cars from the 60s, while Daytonas suffer from the 70s wedge look.)

So now that 275s have almost doubled in value, it makes sense that Daytonas have almost doubled in value.

Turning to the Daytona Spyders versus the 330 GTS, while both were low number cars, a lot fewer Daytona Spyders were made than the GTS. Plus, the Daytona has a hotter engine and some racing history. However, Daytona Spyders are trading at roughly twice the 330 GTS.

Next comparing 275 to 330 spyders, I believe that the 330 is only about $100k more than the 275s, even when the 330 (IHO) is a better car.

Putting this all together, I'm predicting that 330 GTS are poised for a move!

Dale

 

Agree completely - but the 275 GTS will not be left behind, but will shadow the 330 GTS on the way up. And as a lower price "alternative" - more people will be able to plunk down the price for a 275. After all these prices are getting into the range of the "rich" buyer, rather than the merely "affluent". And the 330 prices will cross that line (wherever it is), shifting some potential buyers toward the 275. I think the percentage gap will close between the two. And the initial investment is less for the 275 GTS.

All theoretical - both are out of my comfort zone, pricewise.

Cheers
Warren

 

My feeling is that the complete scarcity of 275/330GTS car won't show the $100,000 gap. Wherever they settle on price I think a 275 will lag behind a 330 by only 10%

 

Michael,

I agree with your assessment. My car is quite spritely, I know Yale's is as well but I've driven a number of them that have underwhelmed me.

I wouldn't be surprised if my car compared quite favorably against a driver 365GTC4 performance-wise, style, in the other hand, is in the eye of the beholder (which of your cars do you prefer?)

Regards,

Art S.

 

I would tend to agree, as both are very rare

 

Looks like it's going to be a while before I buy a Ferrari, as I want a really good car, and it seems that regardless of model, a really good car is going to be at least $75,000

 

stu,

Buy a nice 365 GT4 2+2 - same drivetrain as the 365GTC4 and a third of the price!

Regards,

Art S.

PS. the maintainance is just as fun!

 

At the risk of spewing heresy: The best Italian V-12 investment car in the under $100K range is, ...

a Lamborghini. You can get an Islero, Islero S, Jarama, Jarama S or any Series Espada for well under this. In fact, you can probably get 2 fabulous or 3 driver cars for $100K. Production is very small and maintenance is easily a better-than-Ferrari experience. I believe this is where the smart money is.

Carry on.

 

Ssssh Palos, don't give away the secret until I find the right car

Regards,

Art S.

 

I agree completely. Notwithstanding the recent auction result my understanding from the street is that good 275gts' are actually going for about 450k and a good 330gts is trading hands right now for around 460k. I agree that the gap will eventually narrow as the 330gts' are more rare and frustrated 330gts buyers will go for the 275gts.

 

Art They are as different as can be, the C4, not withstanding the numbers is vastly quicker than the 330, they sound different of course, the C4 turbine like in the front and all exhaust from the rear, the 330 is classic Colombo, a wondereful mix of chains, valves with the exhaust far less dominant, the 330 is a 60s drive, tall and long, the C4 70s for sure low and tight. The pair is a blast to drive back to back! M

 

Given the choice, I'd take the 275 anyway. Amazing appreciation they've had. When I was looking in mid '02 there were a couple of very decent ones out there between $150K and $200K, and Mike Sheehan had a nice Lusso for $130K...if I'd only mortgaged the house.

Agree. You could hardly give me an early Lambo, save a 350 GT or 400GT. My fave non-Ferrari pure Ital car of the era...Maserati Ghibli, coupe or spyder. For hybrids, Bizzarini gets my vote.