Beware of Ferrari Maserati of Vancouver | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Beware of Ferrari Maserati of Vancouver

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Dr. Lawrence Miller, Dec 20, 2013.

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  1. DrewH

    DrewH F1 World Champ
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    Ash was a service advisor. Did he switch to sales? As for giving you your car back: If you didn't owe them any money couldn't you have just called the cops and have them intervene and demand your property back?
     
  2. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    Crazy.that they are damaging cars like this!

    Whats going on there? Drunken joy rides?!
     
  3. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    #78 Dr. Lawrence Miller, Aug 30, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
    Excellent point! My first thought was just to call the police and have then intervene to return my Ferrari. My lawyer opted to send them a letter demanding its release, but FMOV did not release my Ferrari to me until December 18, 2013 when the best of the summer driving season was over. I'm not a lawyer, but I certainly felt they were being criminal in holding my Ferrari against my wishes. I had previously bought my Ferrari outright from Westport Motor Cars, and there was no money owing on it. I will discuss with my lawyer whether it's too late to press criminal charges again FMOV - though I'm sure it would involve more legal costs.

    As for Ash, I had assumed he was a sales person, but perhaps he was a service advisor when FMOV damaged my Ferrari in May 2013. I just checked FMOV's website and he is now listed as a Service and Parts Manager. It would be strange if he were rewarded with a promotion after misleading me about the damage to my Ferrari (i.e., just a scratch when in fact the damage was more than $36k). Maybe that's just how they do business at FMOV.
     
  4. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    Excellent question! I wondered about that possibility and instructed my lawyer to ask Ferrari Maserati of Vancouver (FMOV) if there was any video surveillance available of their master technician getting into the accident which resulted in the more than $36k damage to my Ferrari. For what it's worth, they said there was not. Unless their story changes, I will never know for sure what really happened. I was on a business trip to Ottawa at the time. As noted in the court case, FMOV had also damaged a Ferrari 599 which they described as having a "jumpy clutch" - as if it was the car's fault for the accident. There was another recent case in which they damaged a Ferrari in their shop.

    I should point out that when I write or speak about FMOV, I am really talking about Mark Edmonds, Ash Mohsen, Brain Ross, and to some extent the master technician who damaged my Ferrari. On their website, FMOV writes that "Of course, the advanced technology and tooling is only as good as the technicians using them. We are proud to say among our service staff is a Ferrari Master Technician, Jasek Suski, one of only twenty-five in the world". FMOV told me that he is the one who damaged my Ferrari apparently by misjudging the distance between a wall and a truck when passing between them during a test drive, and causing the resulting damage down the full length of the passenger side of my Ferrari. I have never met or received an apology from him. However, it was really the "wrongful" (as the judge determined) actions of FMOV in withholding my Ferrari that was most disturbing and surprising. They were very polite and helpful when I previously took my Ferrari in for servicing because they were making money from me. However, in my experience, after damaging my Ferrari which had the potential to cost them money, they minimized the problem and tended to avoid / not return my phone calls. It these postings prevent even one person from going through a similar negative experience with FMOV, then I will have contributed in some way to the positive experience of Ferrari enthusiasts everywhere.
     
  5. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    I feel all Ferrari dealerships act this way. they might treat the big buyers well but have no qualms about dumping on the guy who is a one time or occasional customer. its all part of the built in snob appeal of Ferrari. wonder how lambo or macca treat customers in comparison
     
  6. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    Thank you for your support. This thread is now more active since the judge's decision in the case. I welcome any comments or suggestions.
     
  7. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    You may be right about how Ferrari dealerships treat customers. Based on my experience, I was naive to think that Ferrari Maserati of Vancouver (FMOV) would be more professional because it (supposedly) represented Ferrari. In my experience, FMOV chose their own financial self-interest over providing good customer service. They simply hide behind the Ferrari brand name which lends an air of legitimacy to their negative dealings with customers. However, as word gets out about FMOV's negligent and wrongful actions in dealing with this (and other) former customers, there may be fewer Ferrari owners and enthusiasts who are willing to take the risk of dealing with them. This nightmare experience dealing with FMOV happened to me, and it could happen to any other Ferrari owner or enthusiast. Therefore, I believe that the Ferrari community should come together in fighting this kind of negligent and wrongful behaviors on the part of FMOV and other Ferrari dealerships. In my view, the court of public opinion has more power to change Ferrari dealerships' negative dealings with their customers than the supreme court did in my case.
     
  8. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    I just noticed that there is a Ferrari dealership for sale in the US. The thought then occurred to me of organizing a consortium of Ferrari owner's and investors to make an offer to buy the FMOV dealership. This would ensure that it would be operated ethically because it would represent a majority of Ferrari owners and investors (who in theory would do business there). I would be the CEO, and my first action would be to fire the 3 or 4 current employees (perhaps more depending on other owners' input) who have not acted ethically in the past. Any interest?
     
  9. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    I wouldn't mind being a partner in a dealership, but I have two questions.

    How do you know there are 3, 4 or more unethical employees at this unnamed dealership?

    And secondly, who died and made you CEO?
     
  10. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    Lol, fair enough. The comment about me being CEO was a bit tongue in cheek. However, as I have learned, a Ferrari dealership (or any other organization) is only as good as the people who own, manage, and operate it on a day to day basis. To quote Hamlet, "To be honest, as this world goes, is to be one man picked out of ten thousand". Most people can change their negative behaviors if they want to strongly enough or if it benefits them in some way, but they will always have a tendency towards drifting back to their previous negative behaviors over time. This is similar to recidivism which is defined as "The act of a person repeating an undesirable behavior after he / she has either experienced negative consequences of that behavior, or has been treated or trained to extinguish that behavior".
     
  11. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    To be clear, when I proposed a consortium of buyers, I was talking about the Ferrari Maserati of Vancouver (FMOV) dealership (which to my knowledge is not being actively offered for sale), and not the unnamed dealership for sale in the U.S. I have no knowledge or experience with the latter.
     
  12. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    Oops, I missed the FMoV part. OK, you can be CEO. :D
     
  13. Dr. Lawrence Miller

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    As mentioned, FMOV offered me $120,00 for my damaged Ferrari (after they caused the damage). Expert estimators retroactively (right before the May 2013 damage by FMOV) assessed the value of my Ferrari at $133,430 before taxes. With 15% tax (which includes the 3% luxury tax), it would have cost me $153,444 to replace my Ferrari with a similar one in the condition it was prior to the May 2013 damage by FMOV. Put another way, if I had sold my damaged Ferrari to FMOV for $120,000, I would have had to spend an additional $33,444 just to buy a Ferrari in similar condition to mine right before the May 2013 damage by FMOV. The evidence is clear, FMOV was not interested in damage control or providing good customer service, they were interested in making a profit at my expense.
     
  14. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #89 anunakki, Aug 31, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2015
    True

    My $.02 as an unbiased party.

    Life isnt fair and its rare to get a perfect outcome. I only sue if let with no choice and I feel I have a better than 75% chance of being made whole financially. I would never sue out of ego, pride, 'fairness', 'whats right', or to 'punish'.

    I would have let them use their repair facility and in exchange negotiated the use of one of their other cars during the process as well as diminished value. Probably $10k

    My mental probability calculator says that would have resulted in a much cheaper and favorable experience.

    I think this is a very good example/lesson to people as to when not to run up huge legal bills.

    EDIT: The above doesnt excuse the dealers poor customer service, but life isnt about fairness or teaching other lessons. Its about return on investment. Suing the dealer was always going to be a poor ROI.
     
  15. DrewH

    DrewH F1 World Champ
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    The answer to my question maybe buried in one of these posts somewhere but I am trying to understand why you couldn't get your car back from them? If you did not owe them any money why would they not just say come and get your car if you want it? What am I missing here?
     
  16. DrewH

    DrewH F1 World Champ
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    Now that the court case is over it would be great to hear FMOV side of this story? I know they are following this on here. There is always two sides to every story.
     
  17. tres55

    tres55 F1 Rookie
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    When I was looking to enter the Ferrari market, I called FoV and inquired if they could assist me in finding an F355. The sales manager told me he couldn't help me and to "check autotrader" in a rude and dismissive tone.

    I've heard many stories about their poor service now. They've lost a customer for life. It is what it is, and frankly there's a few Ferrari specialty shops that have a great reputation nearby and don't treat you like ****, so I don't care.

    I even called Ferrari of Alberta. They tried to sell me a 355 with accident history without declaring it outright until I called them on it. It's surprising to me that this is how (some) Ferrari dealerships conduct themselves. I would expect more. I guess a used car salesman is a used car salesman at the end of the day.

    A friend of mine orders his Ferrari's from Toronto. Doesn't even deal with FoV anymore.
     
  18. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    I agree there are two sides to every story, but I'm not surprised FMoV hasn't posted here. The judge pretty much laid out all the facts in her decision. Facts that match the OP's initial posts. It would be hard to refute the facts presented under oath.
     
  19. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    i guess the reason is the op did not want to pay the fees for the service after the damage (justifiably so) and fov wouldn't release it without payment.
     
  20. Braces

    Braces Karting

    Mar 24, 2012
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    Pretty sad ordeal for the OP. The best solution for both parties would have been for the dealer to provide the OP with a car with equal if not better value. This would have saved a lot of time and money on both sides. I've been involved with what I will term as a frivolous lawsuit and the 12 months I spent dealing with this were months I will never get back.
     
  21. Dr. Lawrence Miller

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    #96 Dr. Lawrence Miller, Sep 1, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015

    Interesting perspective. I respect your opinion. My favorite uncle used to say "never let your personality get in the way of your intelligence". Then again, he also said I was "educated way beyond my intelligence" - lol. I agree that sometimes it's better to just let things go. For example, I have never contested a parking ticket - even if I felt the ticket was unjustified (e.g., due to improper signage). Like yourself, it is not in my nature to try to enforce fairness onto the world at every opportunity. However, in this particular case, the level of unfairness and injustice from Ferrari Maserati of Vancouver (FMOV) is egregious and unacceptable. Somewhere along the line and perhaps all along, FMOV let making a profit become more important than providing good customer service - at least in my case. Not holding FMOV to account for their negligent and "wrongful" behaviors could cause negative repercussions for the larger Ferrari community. Perhaps a bit overstated here, but "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (or women) to do nothing".


    Our perspectives may differ to some degree on this matter, but I respect your viewpoint and appreciate your input. Thank you.
     
  22. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    The evidence is clear, Ferrari Maserati of Vancouver was not interested in damage control or providing good customer service, they were interested in making a profit at my expense even after damaging my Ferrari. If they deny this, then by all means let them come forward and try to explain themselves.
     
  23. Dr. Lawrence Miller

    Dr. Lawrence Miller Formula Junior

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    Exactly!
     
  24. WJGESQ

    WJGESQ Formula 3

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    Would be nice to think so, but according to published history, we have Lamborghini, which was the result over Ferrarris complete indifference to a customer over a clutch if I'm not mistaken, no? That's bad customer service coming right from the top.
     
  25. Mr. V

    Mr. V Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
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    I'd think hard and fast about whether to pursue an appeal.

    Reading the judge's findings, conclusions, and decision, it seems that in BC the issue of "diminished value" is somewhat unsettled, and the court has quite a bit of discretion in terms of shaping a reward.

    His decision was articulate and seemed well-reasoned, and the amount awarded was purely discretionary, not based on any formula.

    I understand about The Principle Of The Thing, but is it really worth it, when there is no realistic outcome which will make you whole?

    Appeals are not inexpensive; will your trial lawyer be referring it to an attorney who specializes in appellate work?
     

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