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BIG BIG BIG

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Spasso, Jul 23, 2006.

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  1. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,656
    The fabulous PNW
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    Han Solo
    #1 Spasso, Jul 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    747 LCF. Supposed to be flying around here this summer.
    (I heard UPS and Fedex were showing interest)

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    BOEING 747 LCF IN DEVELOPMENT
    By Sebastian Steinke

    In the course of an interview with FLUG REVUE, Kurt Kraft, Chief Project Engineer for the Large Cargo Freighter, recalls the launch phase of his programme back in March 2004. “We were already under a certain amount of time pressure back at the start and we discovered that we did not have sufficient resources available within the company. So we decided to outsource half the development work, calculated by persons employed, to external partners.”

    These include the Boeing Design Centre in Moscow, where the 747-400BCF (Boeing Converted Freighter) was recently designed, Stork Fokker in Amsterdam, Gamesa in Spain and Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, California.”

    On top of this, Kraft organised a system development team from within the company in Long Beach, and the otherwise independent wing development section in Seattle has also been drawn into the LCF work. At the time of the interview with FLUG REVUE, 94% of the design work had already been completed. Kraft was expecting final release of the plans for the first aircraft before the end of December, adding, “We are already building parts like crazy.”

    The engineers from several countries have no easy task: they are required to adapt three used Boeing 747-400 passenger aircraft to transport the bulky and largely pre-assembled wings and fuselage segments of the 787, whose fuselage diameter measures 5.74m, from Japan, the south of the USA and Europe for final assembly in Everett.

    The task requires that the main deck of the cargo aircraft should carry 1840m3, three times the volume of a regular 747-400 cargo aircraft. This is to be achieved by altering the shape of the deck area. The fuselage of the 747-400 LCF will even be 45.7cm wider than that of an A380. According to Boeing, the 747 LCF will actually be the biggest cargo aircraft in the world in terms of volume. Its length is to be extended by three metres, while its vertical tail unit will be raised by 1.5 metres. To enable the bulky cargo to be loaded without problems, a swing zone is being created at the rear end. As in the former Super Guppy, which was once used to transport missile parts, the entire rear fuselage section, including the tail unit, will swing open on the port side, enabling direct loading of aircraft parts from a special low-bed trailer at the rear. The swing action will require an external support vehicle known as the tail stand, which will be pushed under the tail.

    On-schedule completion of the LCF special transport aircraft is essential if Boeing is to meet the ambitious development and production timetable for the 787. Production of the Dreamliner is scheduled to commence in 2006 in order that the maiden flight can take place in 2007 and the first version, the 787-8, can enter into service in 2008. Two LCFs will be needed by the time production starts up in 2007. “The third prototype will only actually be needed later on, but we are converting it somewhat earlier in the interests of a steady production rate,” says Kraft.

    Compared with a regular civil programme where hundreds of aircraft are expected to be sold, the small number of units in this case – only three aircraft – makes it imperative that the engineers keep their design simple to avoid the cost getting out of hand.

    Kurt Kraft explains, “We regard the LCF simply as a production tool for the 787. Nevertheless, the aircraft is not being somehow cobbled together with tricks, but it will be a full 747 version which can be operated safely anywhere in the world.” Like a regular 747 version, the Large Cargo Freighter will be certificated via a supplemental type certificate. For tax reasons amongst other considerations, no marketing of the aircraft outside Boeing's own requirement is planned. “One economy strategy,” according to Kraft, “is to build parts that are as straight as possible. For example, rear section 47 behind the hinges will be a simple cone. The somewhat higher structural weight is not so critical for us.” The engineers have had to compromise over the wing: due to the flutter characteristics, its fuel reserve is being restricted to 50% of the possible useful load. This has meant that the slats, landing gear and systems are largely unchanged and the new wing features are confined to different software.

    From the side, the first jumbo to undergo conversion currently looks rather as if it had been rolled under a huge chainsaw: the side walls of the main deck have been cut away behind the cockpit, along with the major part of the bulge down to floor height. This is where the new, large capacity outer skin will be mounted.

    Evergreen Aviation Technologies Corp (EGAT) of Taiwan is responsible for converting all the freighters. Boeing has already acquired the three second-hand 747-400's: N747BC, serial number 904, which was formerly flown by Air Algerie, N780BA, serial number 778, which formerly belonged to China Airlines, and their sister aircraft which had previously borne the Taiwanese identifier of B-18271.

    As Kurt Kraft explains, “We were looking for aircraft halfway through their service life. There were some that were powered with P&W engines, but we didn't have any preference. Conversion work on the second aircraft also began at the end of October. We are expecting the maiden flight in Taiwan for the beginning of the summer. Then it will fly to Boeing in Seattle.” In January 2007 freight operations will commence with the first two LCFs, the third one following in the summer of 2007.

    Once the 747LCF has been certificated, Boeing will have it serviced and operated by a commercial operator. The cargo airline selected for this purpose, Evergreen International Airlines Inc. (EIA) of McMinnville in Oregon (no relation of EGAT of Taiwan), has been operating cargo jumbos for decades and, as an experiment, it even converted a jumbo into a 747 firefighting aircraft.

    The other air cargo partners that Boeing has selected for the 787 programme are Cargolux for Europa and Sojitz Corp. for Japan. The 747LCF will primarily fly between five airports: Grottaglie (LIBG) near Taranto in Italy for the collection of fuselage segments from Alenia, Nagoya-Centrair to pick up 787 wings and, in the USA, Charleston, South Carolina, Wichita, Kansas and of course Everett, Washington. The 747LCF will thus be a frequent visitor to Europe. Its landing weight lies within previous limits and even during taxiing, the wide-body cargo plane does not require any special treatment.

    The crew consist of two pilots who, familiar with conventional jumbos, will undergo conversion training for the new version in the form of a short theoretical course. In the new upper deck there will be a small restroom for relief crew on long-haul flights. Two seats for observers will be the only seats available for internal passengers. In the otherwise unused section 41, the no longer pressurised nose of the main deck, mounting devices for onboard equipment will be accommodated along with fresh water tank and service water tank. This will provide a welcome counterweight to the heavy fuselage hinges at the rear.

    According to Boeing, despite the recent flurry of orders for the 787, which currently stand at over 400 orders, the three LCFs will be sufficient to cover production requirements. According to Kurt Kraft, its cargo bay length will even be sufficient if an even further stretched version 787-10 should be built later on. “Already for the 787-9 we will need to transport a different mix of fuselage segments than with the smaller 787-3 and 787-8 versions.”

    German suppliers are also involved on the Large Cargo Freighter programme. Telair International of Miesbach, a regular 747 supplier from Upper Bavaria, is developing and delivering the LCF's computer-controlled cargo loading system. The electronically interconnected pulley drives will move the cargo to its allotted place on board and keep it latched there during the flight. The first cargo loading system is to be installed at EGAT at the beginning of 2006. Telair has already tested it on a test rig in a company-owned 747 at Mojave airport.

    From FLUG REVUE 2006
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  2. Dino Martini

    Dino Martini F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2004
    4,619
    Calgary Alberta
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    Martin
    Holy..that thing is huge. I guess the aircraft business is really on a "go big or go home" philosphy now. Not just in size or passenger/cargo capacity but range too.
     
  3. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    Range is definitely the big deal these days. The 777-200LR can fly between any two points on the globe non-stop, literally.
     
  4. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Apr 21, 2003
    15,111
    Gulf Coast
    If you took all the peeps and seats off, added some auxillary tanks and filled it up to the max how close could you get going nonstop around the earth?
     
  5. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,656
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    It would be interesting to find out. The plane is already designed to take up to 3 auxilary tanks in the aft cargo bay.

    A few years ago earlier version made a record breaking non-stop from Seattle to Kuala Lampur, Malasia, west to east, in passenger trim though only 20 or so people were on board. NO aux tanks on that one. I think they were in the air for 16 hours. I'll have to look it up.
     
  6. rfking

    rfking Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2003
    785
    Italy
    Just flew the 777 round trip between ATL and LGW - what a great airplane!

    Delta airlines Business Class has degraded to crap service, but they are the most convenient flight for me to Europe from Alabama (ATL). I won't fly anything but the 777 to London as it is heads above anything else - other than the 747 first class probably.
     
  7. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 27, 2004
    16,459
    Georgia
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    Jim Pernikoff
    Try British Airways instead: same plane, same airports, very nice service. (And I was in coach class!)
     
  8. rfking

    rfking Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2003
    785
    Italy
    I'll work on it.

    Thanks
     
  9. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    It is nice to hear good things said about the 777 since I was part of the design team that started that airplane in 1989. I worked on the environmental control system, lofting the nose, and put together some of the in-flight entertainment system architecture, and was one member of the team that put together the first digital mock up of a Boeing jet airliner or any other airplane. And now my son is one of the prime inspectors in 777 final assembly. I have been told that the airline people call it the WGA, World's Greatest Airplane. I'll drink to that.
    Switches
     
  10. rfking

    rfking Formula Junior

    Nov 16, 2003
    785
    Italy
    I'll do my best to take you up on that drink hee before too long. As it is we have no trips planned to your neck of the woods, but that can change quickly. We'll keep in touch and keep our fingers crossed that the good guys can continue to stay ahead of the bastards trying to take out our airliners.
     
  11. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,656
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    Han Solo
    #11 Spasso, Aug 29, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The first newly completed superfreighter for Boeing was unveiled Monday at Taiwan's Chiang Kai-shek International Airport by Evergreen Group. The ungainly jet is a modified 747-400 with a bulging upper fuselage and a swing tail. Three of these will transport large completed pieces of the 787 from around the globe to Everett for final assembly. (I have no doubt that more than 3 of these will be built) After some initial flight testing in Taiwan, Boeing now expects this first superfreighter to fly into Boeing Field "before mid-September," almost two months later than originally planned. But Boeing said the 787 program remains on schedule. The superfreighter will have to be certified and operational early in 2007 for it to begin ferrying in the pieces of the first 787, which Boeing plans to roll out of the Everett factory next June. The 787 will enter service in May 2008.

    It's really hard to scale this A/P by the pictures but it should look very "interesting" in the air. I don't doubt at least a couple of reports will be made of "cigar like" UFO's in the Seattle area this fall.

    Much like the Super Guppies when I was a kid, they looked like very fast Goodyear blimps.

    Note the modified vertical stabilizer in the second to last/last pictures (plus turbines).
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  12. Plane_Crazy_4_YHWH

    Aug 23, 2006
    8
    Well thats Interesting... and BIG!!! its a lil Ugly I think... lol

    Why did they need to extend that so high above the cocpit?
     
  13. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,656
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    #13 Spasso, Aug 30, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It was originally designed to haul components of the Saturn V booster used to lift the Apollo program in the 60's.

    There are smaller versions called Mini- and Pregnant Guppy.
    Go here for pictures, http://www.air-and-space.com/guppies.htm
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  14. Plane_Crazy_4_YHWH

    Aug 23, 2006
    8
    Wouldn't that increese drag with it buldging in the middle of the fuselage above the wings?
     
  15. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,656
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    Yes but they didn't care about the drag as long as it flew and got the job done. I'm sure the fuel burn was atrocious but that didn't matter either. They had to get a job done and there was no other airplane in existence that could do it.
     
  16. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    The mission is to transport outsized cargo at a Reasonable Cost. Increased drag is acceptable if it doesn't overcome the profitable element and practical element of the equation. If this equipment was hauling skinny light weight cargo , then drag would enter the equation but it will be hauling huge body sections of the 787 and getting the cargo delivered at optimum cost is the target. It will do it.
     
  17. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,656
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    Han Solo
    I think he was talking about the bulbousness of the Guppy. The 747 LCF looks svelt next to it!:p:p
     
  18. ylshih

    ylshih Shogun Assassin
    Honorary Owner

    Mar 21, 2004
    20,408
    Northern CA
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    Yin
    So were the controls "fly-by-wire" back then (60's?) or did they figure out a way to route the control lines through the hinge point?
     
  19. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    No fly by wire in the 60's. Control cables were equipped with discrete disconnects and tensioners just as they are now.
     
  20. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
    14,656
    The fabulous PNW
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    Han Solo
    Steam gauges, hand crank intercom, vacuum tube radios, mecahnical brakes, friction shocks ..............etc..............................:p
     
  21. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    Are you inferring that I might be from the old days ! Hand cranked intercom ?
    Steam gages DID work and I never had a cable break on me. Didn't have a hand cranked intercom 'cause the gossport was just fine. " Just speak through this tube stuff" worked every time. If it didn't , you could always yell back, " Get the marbles out of your mouth!" And on a B-24 sometimes you could go forward to the flight deck and yell, " What did you say?" No problem with any breakdowns in electronics here.
    Switches
     
  22. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    Nice to see parts from the B-29 are still flying.
     
  23. Skyraider

    Skyraider Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    620
    Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ! ! ! !

    Charlie
     
  24. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    B-29 ? Hell, that was a huge jump into the ultra modern future! That didn't have unpressurized wide open fuselages that blew in -50 deg wind. They just sat there in heated and presurized luxury and listened to the radio.
    I flew in one of those too. I'm still going, they ain't.
     
  25. Skyraider

    Skyraider Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    620
    You tell em Switches...!!

    As for me. I'm still flying the B-12's ~ ~ ~ ~





    (Vitamin B-12's that is :) :) :)
    an cholesterol & blood pressure & memory & joint med's!)

    ...sigh...

    But still ..........I'm legally airborne....

    Charlie
     

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