Bit dusty Daytona

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by VetroresinaNL, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Someone needs to define a rule what is “a barn find” and what is just a dirty and abused car.

    If this car remains in this condition forever it’s got to be the dumbest waste of a car of all time.
     
  2. peterp

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    #27 peterp, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    To me, the best example of the "barn find" versus patina, or more specifically versus a fully restored car, is the Gooding & Co. 2014 auction that had two 300 SL Gullwings for sale -- both 1956 cars with black exterior and red leather interior. One car had been totally restored to a high level and the other was a "barn find" in need of total restoration. The restored car was in the same family from 1957 to 2007 and the "barn find" had 3 owners before the third owner semi-permanently parked it in his garage (er, "barn") in 1983 until it was "discovered" in 2013. In the same auction, the restored car sold for $1.4 million while the "barn find" in need of a total restoration sold for $1.9 million.

    Restored car: https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1956-mercedes-benz-300-sl-gullwing-3/
    Barn find: https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1956-mercedes-benz-300-sl-gullwing-4/

    Hemmings story highlighting the sale (written before the auction took place): https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2014/01/09/unrestored-or-pristine-a-tale-of-two-mercedes-benz-gullwings-to-play-out-at-auction/


    That would be the most expensive detail job in the history of the planet, by a very, very wide margin, if you consider "all in" costs (aka reduction of "value") :)
     
  3. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Rookie
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    I thought this was also the only alloy body non-competition Daytona produced.
     
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  4. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    Just plain nonsensical IMO. "rich with patina", my arse.

    Almost invariably a "barn find" is indeed no more or less than a dirty and abused car. It's dealer-speak for "some mug will come along and buy this for twice what it's worth".
     
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  5. Drew Altemara

    Drew Altemara Formula 3
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    Is this the alloy bodied car?
     
  6. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    I'd define it differently:

    A valuable, historic and rare car that has been long forgotten is now found and restore-able.

    So, antiques are now just "someone's junk?"
     
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  8. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    David Seilstad wrote an excellent column in the last several years - in either Cavallino or Prancing Horse - that really nailed the difference between "patina" and "dereliction" - the latter not to be glorified.

    I have a very hard time believing this is road-worthy. Even if can be started, do you trust that there is no sludge in the sump and that the top of the engine won't be starved for oil? Trust those brakes - master cylinder and wheel cylinder thoroughly pitted out decades ago? Let it run for 5 minutes and then check the volume of fluids of all types on the floor - every seal turned to stone eons ago. Even if you flush every system and provide new fluids - the hoses are all toast and will continue to degrade from the inside out. Do you know how much crud is on every electrical connection - fire anyone? I really don't get it. By all means, leave the dirt and signs of neglect if that floats your boat, but there is a ton of work to do before this can be safely driven around and not further damage the drivetrain or yourself . ..
     
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  9. peterp

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    #33 peterp, Feb 7, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    Nobody is suggesting that antiques are junk. What most of us are saying is that antiques that are decomposing and physically damaged from neglect should not carry a premium over either: 1) antiques that have been maintained and have normal wear from normal use; or 2) antiques that have been correctly restored to proper original condition.

    If you can explain, on a logical basis, why the barn find Gullwing in post #27 deserved the $500k premium it received over a nearly identical car restored to a very high level in the same auction, then you have an argument. To me, there is no logical answer. With the barn find Gullwing -- you either:

    A) continue the abuse by letting it rot (which makes no sense and is a crime against humanity);

    or

    B) you restore it to perfect original, meaning that you just destroyed all the "barn-findedness" you just paid a massive premium for.

    It's a no-win situation in my book.

    Nobody is arguing that barn finds do sell for a premium, we are just arguing the logic in that. The only exception in my book is if you found a car truly untouched since new, or hidden away by a celebrity a gazillion years ago and then truly discovered out of the blue, but the "barn finds" you see on the market that sell for premiums are seldom that.
     
  10. racerboy9

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  11. Rob Lay

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    come on, everyone knows they want to buy the car just to be the one that saves her. how rewarding giving her that first detail and the ugly duckling that becomes a swan. this is like finding that hot mess stripper with a few addictions looking like hell and you think a good shower and shopping for new clothes you'll wind up with a perfect 10 wife material. :D
     
  12. TTR

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    Yes, I believe it is, although I haven't seen or verified it personally.
     
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  13. westextifosi

    westextifosi Karting
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    It has got to be the alloy bodied car. Surely there can't be more than one completely neglected Daytona with ARA air slapped on under the glovebox on this planet.
     
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  15. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    That was not an attempt at a definition, merely an observation on the (mis)use of the term.

    My sentiments entirely.
     
  16. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    nailed it. wait, let me rephrase . . .
     
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  17. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 Veteran

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    Maybe we've all got his wrong and that is how your car will be returned by the dealer after its service !!!
     
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  18. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    :D:D:D
     
  19. VetroresinaNL

    VetroresinaNL Formula 3
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    It is great to read all the comment. For me it was great to see the car in detail and I just admired it, just as it was standing there. Interesting fact was that is was on a stand of Ferrari Beverly Hills...
     
  20. PAUL500

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    I cannot believe I am reading the words "crimes against humanity" to describe a hard used, then neglected old car.

    Some of you need a trip out into the real world to understand the correct use of such a term.
     
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  21. peterp

    peterp F1 Veteran
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    #44 peterp, Feb 8, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
    Come on, Paul, that expression was not meant literally at all, it was very much a tongue-in-cheek depiction of consciously letting a car degrade. Please consider the context, it was not referring to it being left in the barn initially, but about the hypothetical scenario of buying it and then choosing specifically to let it continue to rot to preserve the barn find value.

    I do think the discussion got off track and that the generic barn find discussion distracted from the subject car, which I played a large part in, so I apologize for that. I think the thread would have stayed more on track with a link to the background on this car early in the thread, or at least a mention of the serial number, because not everybody (ok, not me :)) is familiar with this car's background. This car being the only (or is it just last?) alloy road-going Daytona is the unique thing that makes this particular discovery truly special (versus "discovering" a non-unique car that was abandoned in a suboptimal environment and then putting that car on a pedestal as if it had descended from the heavens).

    Here is a link from August profiling the car: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/845442/ferrari-daytona-GTB-4-found-dusty-barn-japan-40-years

    Perhaps someone else can point to URL's or Fchat threads where this car was discussed previously, especially what the plans are now for the car. I'm pretty sure the thread will stay on track with that information as a baseline. I agree with the OP that it is very cool to see it on display as found at Ferrari Beverly Hills.
     
  22. miurasv

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    Are Ferrari Beverley Hills selling it?
     
  23. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    Which IMO makes the guy who neglected it for the last almost 40 years, all the more guilty (assuming it was not already in this condition when he bought it). If you choose to own a special car, you have a responsibility to look after it. I don't imagine anyone on this forum would take such little care of their Ferrari, however mundane it may be (by Ferrari standards, that is - no Ferrari can be described as mundane).

    This car is going to have to undergo a load of restoration if it is ever going to get back on the road. That will inevitably involve loss of originality. Just imagine how amazing this car could be if someone had take a little care of it.
     
  24. VetroresinaNL

    VetroresinaNL Formula 3
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    Well it is their name on the stand walls!
     
  25. TheMayor

    TheMayor Six Time F1 World Champ
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    I think there's a difference between just having something sit around collecting dust and outright "neglect".

    This to me is just neglect. Someone didn't care, even when the car had value. To fix it might be more than buying a good one. IMO, this is more a tragedy than something worth "celebrating".
     
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  26. LorenzoOO

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    Looks like a mouse house.
     
  27. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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