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Bizzarrini used 250 GT SWB Comp. #1791GT as test bed for GTO.

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by miurasv, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    #1 miurasv, Oct 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Giotto Bizzarrini used 250 SWB Competizione #1791GT as a base/test bed for the design of the the 250 GTO according to Ferrari citing internal factory records as the source of the information. See here: 250 GTO So, not Boano 0523GT or SWB 2053GT?

    "Early development of the new model was shrouded in secrecy, with Giotto Bizzarrini charged with developing a car to take on and beat the Jaguar E Type. In various interviews over the years he has said he was given an old 250 GT Boano chassis as a basis for the project. However, internal factory records show that he was provided with a 250 GT 'passo corto' (chassis 1791GT) on which to base the new car. On its first outing at Monza in September 1961, prior to the Italian Grand Prix, the 250 GTO earned the nickname 'Il Mostro' (The Monster), due to its rough-hewn and ill fitting prototype body. During test sessions, Stirling Moss drove the car to record times far better than those ever achieved by a 250 GT 'passo corto'. A 'palace revolution' followed later in the year, and Bizzarrini found himself on the outside, with refinement of the GTO body entrusted to Sergio Scaglietti, who created its definitive shape."
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  2. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
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    An important discovery. Raises another question: what 1791GT became after its use as "Il Mostro"?
     
  3. 275GTBSaran

    275GTBSaran Formula Junior

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    In most important Ferrari books I have read (and I pretty much have most of them) I thought that it was stated that the GTO was an evolution of the 250 SWB. Perhaps it was never officially documented but its what I believed to have been reading.

    Well done Steve for finding this information and making this 'official'.
     
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Old news. Sorry to say but this information has been published at least twice before already, once by Keith G. Bluemel in a French Ferrari Club magazine several years ago and in another publication as well.

    Side note: As is well known Italian Corrado Cupellini since more than 15 years has a "250 GT SWB Berlinetta which uses a number 1791 GT" and this creation is for sale since quite some time.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Before posting it I searched Ferrari Chat and the internet and no results found. I'm sure lots of things are old news to you, Marcel as one of the world's greatest Ferrari historians, but this is certainly new news to me. The subject of which car Il Mostro was and if it was Boano 0523GT or SWB 2053GT has come up many times, and if it was common knowledge I'm sure someone would have posted the "old news" about 1791GT here before. Tom Roland hadn't heard about it either.......
     
  6. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    I love your use of language there, A 250 SWB that uses that number is certainly one way of putting it.
     
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  7. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

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    Are there any more pics of Il Mostro in the original bodywork?
     
  8. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Off course it was! Otherwise it would never have received FIA omologation and would have been an underperformer in sports protope category just like 250 GT passo corto was til June 1960!
     
  9. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
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    The question posted in #2, what 1791GT became after its use as "Il Mostro"? remains open.
     
  10. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Great find!!!

    But unfortunately an anonymous writer quoting a factory doc that is not available for viewing, does not count as proof in my book.

    Best wishes, Kare
     
  11. Silverarrow

    Silverarrow Rookie

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    The Bizzarrini book entitled "The Maranello Monster" is where "Giotto" reveals the story of his GTO Prototype...with Enzo (Commendatore) turing to Bizzarrini to see what he could do to turn the 250GT Coupe into a competitive car. Is was a serect project that even Bizzarrini's good friend, Carlo Chiti (Ferrari's Director of Racing since 1958 and sport Prototypes and Formula One) didn't even know about the project. Bizzarrini talks about a 3 Litre V-12 version from the 250GT Coupe being mounted on 400 Superamerica...

    I have a copy of this 30-page book. It's in both Italian and English and features a couple rare b/w/ pictures of the prototpye

    It's also autographed by Bizzarrini on the first page with his personal, hand written note dated 12 November, 1990:

    "Dear Mr. Lincoln.
    I hope you will enjoy the stroy of this book.
    My Father, Mr. Segomi and I send you our best regards.
    Giuseppe Bizzarrini".

    PM me if anyone is interested in more info.
     
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  12. velocetwo

    velocetwo F1 World Champ

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    #12 velocetwo, Jun 12, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2014
    I find it interesting that the factory hasn't made the truth known about what chassis numbers were used to build the prototypes. Like all things Bizzarrini there is mystery. Maybe Ferrari isn't sure themselves.

    BTW from what I have been told by people that are close to him Giotto would sign almost anything, there are plenty of grey documents floating around with his signature.

    In Jack Koobs De Hartogs newest Bizzarrini book ' Le mie vetture, la mia- my cars my life ' he lists Ferrari Boano (#0523 GT)
    used by Giotto for technical- Aero and road tests it was his company car for a while too called "La Cavia" color Gery
    Retained by factory used as Muletto

    later used by Bizzarrini and called "Papero" 'Ghoose' with dry sump Testa Rosa engine tuned exhaust.
     
  13. Silverarrow

    Silverarrow Rookie

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    CORRECTION: It's autographed by Bizzarrini's Son...not Mr. B. Himself.
    My apologies...I can't read Italian handwriting very well. ;)
     
  14. Birel

    Birel Formula 3
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    1791 is recently Classiche restored and certified with claimed "original body". So that doesn't align with it being the Bizzarrini "il Mostro".
     
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  15. Mtnworld

    Mtnworld Rookie

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    Here are the last news from 1960 Ferrari 250 GT SWB Competizione #1791GT

     
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  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    It would be fabulous if you could please be so kind and post full factory certification (red book) incl explanation re engine number etc. for this yellow car. TTBOMK it has been for sale for at least 4 years now.
    Thank you very much.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  17. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Replica.
     
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  18. Mtnworld

    Mtnworld Rookie

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    This is the #1791GT Ferrari 250 GT SWB Competizione with Chassis from Ferrari 250 GTE serial #4531.
    Because the original Cassis # 1791 has been removed for a development.
    Current chassis Ferrari 250 GTE serial #4531 to such as original #1791GT Car / Engine serial number overwrite as #1791GT.
    The vehicle have ID in Switzerland with street license and old-timer certificate.
     
  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Swiss title is worthless as is FIVA paper. I have copies of all that.
    Is YOUR YELLOW car Ferrari factory red book certified or not? Did Ferrari Classiche in Maranello confirm in writing? No doubt you are aware that there is more than one car claiming to be „1791 GT“. Use the search function on ferrarichat.

    Macel Massini
     
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  20. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Bump.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  21. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Another version of events which does not reflect 1791GT as the car utilized. Note there was no money for a car >


    Enzo gave a direct order to Giotto Bizzarrini, responsible for the development of the whole 250 GT line, to build a new competition Berlinetta, better than Chiti’s #2643GT, completely in secret. Not even Chiti and Scaglietti were to be informed about this project.

    Giotto Bizzarrini accepted this challenge against his colleague and friend and, with 3 assistants, locked himself away in a shed and started. One of the problems that Bizzarrini faced was that Enzo made it very clear to him that there was no money available for new parts and experiments. He had to use what already existed. How to start on a project like this?
    Giotto Bizzarrini took his old 250 GT Boano, known as the ‘Cavia’ (‘Guinea-pig’), that he normally used as his company car. This had been Enzo Ferrari’s daily “driver” in 1956 and ’57, chassis number 0523 GT.
    250 GTO Prototype Design Characteristics of 0523 GT
    Bizzarrini shortened the wheelbase of 0523 GT to that of the SWB and strengthened the side members of the chassis to improve the general chassis stiffness. An improvement in weight distribution was achieved by moving the engine 20 cm back in the chassis and lowering it somewhat.

    The body was hand beaten without the help of good body-workers tools. The aerodynamics were taken care of by lowering the front part of the body.

    Giotto Bizzarrini has always dreamed of recreating his lost 250GTO Prototype that was dismantled and destroyed.
    “The "Papero" or “Papera” was destroyed. Commendatore Ferrari wanted that I had it, but at the end of 1961 there was the well-known "revolution" with the exit from Ferrari of all of the managers. Therefore I was not able to take the "Papera" home. A true error !!! It did not became a SWB nor a GTO”.

    This is the quote of Giotto Bizzarrini about the Ferrari he modified and pictured on test >
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  22. Sire Bruno de Losckley

    Aug 1, 2006
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    Mystère! 1791GT ou 0523GT, ou 2053GT.

    n'y aurait-il pas eu une erreur entre les chiffres, 0523 et 2053
     
  23. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran
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    This prototype is indeed old news but I thought it had a lady's nickname ,a very unflattering one, implying a rather rotund lady badly needing a razor...but no, papera means duckling and the implivcation is not a sweet one. How wonderful it would be if it were still around...
     
  24. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
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  25. till.a.fischer

    till.a.fischer Karting

    Oct 18, 2006
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    The side windows look very much like on a SWB.
    So I would think the body certainly came from a SWB.
    But this not necessarily means the chassis dud also.

    Sent from my SM-G973F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

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