What so ever who you are, Can you be more explicite about the meaning of your signature ? "Méfiez vous des Belges qui vendent des voitures à l'historique douteux" Are you targeting someone personnaly hidden by a global sentence ? or several persons or it is for any Belgian guy on this planet ? As I'm Belgian, it is an offense towards my nationality as you express your sentence like if all Belgian are crocks !!! In this community there are some rules to respect, I'm asking you to clarify the point... Olivier NAMECHE LCB President www.lamborghiniclubbelgium.com
It will be a pleasure. I'll send you a private PM. I like 99.99% of all things Belgian, including but not limited to, Belgian beer, Jacky Ickx, Eddy Merckx, the Spa racetrack, Olivier Gendebien, and frittes. Merci.
Yeah right. I agree with you. I think that the project is really successful. I hope that he will continue that nice project.
As you saw from my PM, I was more than candid about whom I was referring to with regards to the particular purveyor of classic cars from your fine country. I'd encourage others to shine the flashlight when called for. Back to Bizzarinis...
Olivier, tu pers ton temps, l internet est la porte ouverte a tout les genies et imbeciles de tout poil qui connaissent tout, savent tout, et ont une opinion sur tout donc si tu commences a vouloir tout savoir sur des gens qui ne connaissent rien sauf le fond de leur poche qui est vide, tu vas y perdre ton "manekenpis" Toi Oilivier, tu peux avoir une opinion generale sur les voitures car tu les possedes ou les as possedes mais ceux qui ne collectionnent les 1/24 et qui savent tout me font mourir de rire alors. Moi j ai pris plus de 300 km/h avec ma Bizz alors je peux chanter.
Thank you for the book reference. I ordered it from Amazon. Can't wait for it to get here. Although I'm a fan of this car, I did not know there was a specific book about the variant.
Still confused if the Manta frame and suspension is based on the 538 design or was a completely different design!
Used P538 parts were used to build it. For a long time people thought it was a P538 that Giugiaro slapped a body on, but recent information alludes that Bizzarrini gave Giugiaro a bunch of used P538 parts and Giugiaro fabricated them into the Manta. Even more interesting is that Giugiaro came up with the first designs for the Lamborghini Miura while at Bertone, he took the drawings with him and as part of the deal to get the P538 parts he gave Bizzarrini the Miura design, bizzarrini used it without the top to build the P538 body. Yea all the Lambo guys hate the whole idea of this, but it's true. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
There is a full scale model of this car. Anyone has more photos or information? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Can't find the article, but son Fabrisio had that a full scale 'Original' design Muira built for his father's 70th b-day. Veloce2 references it here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139421059&postcount=7379
When Giugiaro was given the assignment from Bertone he was not told who the customer was( possibly because Bertone knew that Giugiaro was thinking of leaving). Giugiaro assumed that the only guy around that could think of such a wild project was Bizzarrini, hence the nose has the distinctive Bizzarrini look.
Well like it or not that is the history. Giugiaro confirms this using his original drawings to build this prototype. Image Unavailable, Please Login
You can see the similar lines, keep in mind the nose was changed by Gandini because it wasn't a Bizzarrini. What you thought Gandini was a genius, that he would just pop this unbelievable design out of thin air? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Okay it was the first prototype. What this has shown us is there was a lot of difference between the this first prototype and the final car. velocetwo, the lines are not the same at all. The Muira (final version) has a much more sculptured side (with a line/crease along the side that the P358 does not even have) not the curvy side that the P358 has. Have a look at a 3 quarter view of the Muira versus the yellow full sized model ... big difference in side sculpturing with the Muira much better, tighter and moderner looking. I could go on ... the windscreen, side glass, rear window, rear panel, height of the rear wheel bump, every thing is different. The only simularity is the swoopy shape that goes up and down around the wheels. That is where it ends But as with any prototype changes happen, so yes I'll accept that the first Muira prototype and the P358 look similar but I will not accept that the first Muira prototype and the final car are anything but remotely similar ... therefore there is little connection between the P358 and the production Muira body style wise. If I owned a Muira, I would simply say, yep the first prototype was a different design that became the P358 and that the Muira was completely redesigned to become the stunning car it is. Pete
Good points I agree, I always wondered what the car would have looked like if Giugiaro stayed with Bertone. I think if he had more time on this it would have been in the same class as the Mangusta or the Grifo. IMO the cars he designed in this era were his best. They incorporated the older rounded smooth curves with the more modern straight edges. Canguro Grifo Fiat Dino coupe Mangusta Maserati Ghibli
