Bloomberg: The Glut of Private Jets Means ‘Insane’ Bargains for Buyers

This one might not go for a bargain nor cheap to get airworthy but it is sitting in El Paso. At least you can say you have a 1 of a kind biz jet.

 

The first G-II has a great story, and ended up in a museum, where she belongs. Only two owners-- Gulfstream (then Grumman), and Bob Galvin.

G-II s/n 3 was new to Gillette, and owned by them for 20 years. Then off to a succession of low-budget operators before ending up where she did... Imagine what an incredible machine she was, when new!

 

N214GP, G-II s/n 3, in London back in the day...

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/000620974L.html

 

I did extensive work on one of these very early G-IIs for Wesaire. Wesaire = William Simon (N369CS), definitely not an underfunded guy. Originally a Grumman aircraft built in Bethpage (versus the later ones in Savannah). Went to Gulfstream when Grumman replaced it with a G3. Gulfstream had it on a lease with Parker Hannifan before selling to Simon.

Ended up with Golden Nugget after Simon as one of their lesser aircraft. But Nugget took god care of their aircraft.

 

A friend of mine flew sn 27 very late in it's career, and they took it to Gulfstream for a major repair (fuel truck ran into the wing). That was a bad idea for many reasons, as they found out, but one thing he complained about was that Gulfstream replaced the "Grumman" yoke center caps with "Gulfstream" ones.

 

They may have also of replaced the Grumman on the side of the airstair, if that had not of already been done.

 

I think they did that too! Adding insult to injury...

 

Although not a jet, does anyone know if there is a G-I still flying? Walt Disney's G-I is still up to date on registration with the FAA through 2020 (N234MM), but it's parked on the backlot of Disney Hollywood studios (link). Here's a pic of it from a while back: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_Gulfstream_I#/media/File:WD-G-1.jpg

 

I'm pretty sure Phoenix Air or someone like that has some special mission G-159s still flying.

Here is one of theirs, from 2016:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Untitled-Phoenix-Air/Grumman-G-159-Gulfstream-I/3876413

 

http://g159hrm.com/fleet-status.html

G1 Fleet Status
Page updated: 07.14.2017

Latest Stats:
Active: 10
Withdrawn: 39
Broken Up: 31
Scrapped / Destroyed: 107
Unaccounted for: 13
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Active
(10)
Operated within the past 6 months and/or known to be operable.
C.N. 026
C.N. 052
C.N. 054
C.N. 074
C.N. 086
C.N. 125
C.N. 149
C.N. 188
C.N. 192
C.N. 196
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Nice! Approximately how much would maintaining one cost? I wonder what one would sell for now...

 

Dirt cheap to acquire since there are no buyers.

Operating costs? Bad. Be very careful of corrosion and deferred proper maintenance. Most likely the avionics are mostly boat anchors with limited, if any, product support still available. Not sure where you can get engine support for these.

 

There are some people that like the history of Gulfstream going back to when it was still Grumman. Think of it as taking your car to the dealer and they switch badges to a new version of the corporate logo without asking.

 

The reason taking a G-II (or III or IV) to a Gulfstream factory service center, or any old airplane to any factory service center, is that the factory would rather sell you a new airplane instead of fixing your old one. So they will insist that it essentially be made to be as new before it leaves, and with a 30 year old airplane, that's just not possible. It will accumulate new issues even as the old ones are fixed. Furthermore, they aren't necessarily the experts on these old airplanes any more anyway.

So it will cost you a fortune, if you get out at all, and the airplane will probably be in worse shape. Same thing applies to Citations, Learjets (do they have a factory service center any more?), etc. Basically, taking any out of production airplane back to the factory.

The exception to that are airplanes which are out of production and supported by an organization where that's the main mission. Twin Commander and Aerostar, for example.

 

I had no idea there were so many G-Is still operating! Of course, most of them are special mission aircraft with Phoenix Air, but that's pretty cool-- and I saw at least one that looks like it's still in a corporate configuration.

They seem to have escaped the noise issues which were the real downfall of the G-II and G-III (even with hush kits). Is there a reason why the G-I is still viable in some of those roles?

 

Man that sucks to hear...I really want a G-I now.

 

I'm sure you could operate one for a few million per year. In comparison, the purchase price might seem pretty reasonable.

If you could go back in time to 1961, according to the G-159 website above, you could get away with $100-150k/year!

Jeff, that G-159 website is fantastic!

 

Which is about $2-3 mill in today's dollars...inflation.

So, about the same.

 

Wow...that's crazy. You can get a lot of first class international flights a year with that amount. I've never flown private, but I guess it makes a big difference not dealing with booking tickets, TSA, waiting for departure, etc.

 

...and in the GI, toodle along at 350 mph...

 

You simply can't do a cost comparison with the airlines. If you are trying to justify it that way, give up now. Private aircraft are incredibly convenient, and give you more time. The real question is how much is your time worth?

Many years ago, Vanity Fair ran a big article about owning a Gulfstream, by "anonymous" (really Nathan Myhrvold, then of Microsoft). He pointed out that, on the one hand, from a cost point of view each flight was about the same as buying a new Mercedes, driving it once, and abandoning it.

On the other hand, he also pointed out that no matter how much money he had, there were very few things which gave him real marginal benefits. You could only eat so much food, have a nice desk chair, etc... but one thing he could do was have more time with his family, and that's what his aircraft allowed him to do.

 

That is a good point. I used to have work weeks pushing 100 hours a few years back with some 4 week stints of only a couple days off in the middle. It would've been nice to fly back home to visit family those short days off, but the commercial flights I had available didn't allow it without wasting time. Thankfully now I don't work that much, but I can see where one that is busy and a workaholic really does value their free time. I did a lot back then, but didn't (and still don't) have the resources like that.

 

Let me expound a bit more on what Don gave as reasons for use of private.

You arrive to the aircraft early you leave early. You arrive late, it is a new "on-time" departure. In many locations you can drive directly up to the aircraft for loading and unloading.

No fear of lost luggage or having a bag that exceeds some weight or size limit. Depending upon the aircraft you can access your baggage from the cabin in flight. If you are carrying fragile items or part of some presentation the fear of it being mis-handled are pretty much gone.

If a meeting runs quicker you can leave as soon as possible. If the meeting craters fast no need to hang around.

If a meeting runs long, you can keep pushing your departure back without a problem. There is no need to be checking the watch. At best you call the pilots and let them know that there will be a delay.

You can go in and out of airports that may be far closer to where you need to be. You can fly directly to where you need to be instead of doing multiple legs going and returning.

Since you know everyone on board there are sensitive conversations that can be held during the trip. Same goes for having document and presentation reviews without prying eyes.

More people can be on the trip without costing any more than additional food on board. Say you are making a presentation, you can have a show of force/commitment/depth of knowledge for the meeting for no additional cost.

If you are dealing in something where you don't want to be seen (M&A) corporate is a good way to hide people.

Had dealings with someone way back that did a lot of their meetings on the aircraft after they landed.

During the flight one can use the phone and internet without any hindrances.

Then there are the little things like having your specific preferences for food, beverages, snacks, etc. You can keep the aircraft stocked with your office type items instead of carting them back and forth.

As Don said, trying to make the cost be justified against airline flights is a losing proposition (there may be a very few city pairs that could work but it is rarely worth trying). Time, productivity, convenience and flexibility are what make the justification, if it can be afforded.

 

There was a GIV for sale here and it sat, and sat and sat. Its last flight was to a scrap yard in Houston. Kind of sad to see but it was worth more in parts than as a flying whole. Lots of guys are buying GIV's, GV's to take advantage of a true global aircraft. With the airlines sucking up bizjet pilots and a bunch of new Gulfstream owners......not a bad time to be a seasoned G Driver.