BMC and K&N filter debate! | FerrariChat

BMC and K&N filter debate!

Discussion in '360/430' started by SrfCity, Aug 6, 2006.

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  1. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Yea, I know this is right up there with 6-speed vs. F1 but, I read this over on 6-speed online and thought I'd pass it along. Seems to me using an oiled filter for daily stuff is like smoking; at some point it'll catch up to you cuz you risk breathing in all that crap. I choose to not smoke :) MAF sensor gum up is the other issue. FWIW...............


    " Quote:
    Originally Posted by wross996TT
    Try washing it and don't re-oil it...worth a try?


    The OIL coating on the filter captures and holds the dirt as the air passes thru. Once the the oil coated surface is covered with dirt particles , it no longer holds them and they pass thru into the engine.

    If you clean the filter and do not re-coat it with oil, you may as well leave the filter out.
    Also , oil filters are much freer flowing than normal filters and a certain amount of dirt always gets past them.
    If you use one, clean it VERY often and recondition it with oil .
    Also change your engine oil FREQUENTLY.
    ( Microscopic dirt particles in the engine oil go right thru the oil filter as well and make a great polishing compound after a while. Lol )

    By contrast, in a regular filter ,microscopic fibers capture the dirt and as a result, the passages thru it become smaller and smaller , holding even more and smaller dust particles. In other words, it gets better , the dirtier it gets.
    ( Of course , it will take more HP to suck the air thru but at least the engine stays clean if you happen to forget to change it )

    I would not use an oil type air filter for every day driving .They are OK for occasional trips to the track and will give you a few extra HP.
    I would DEFINITELY not use one in very humid weather or during cold weather and I would definitely not use a K&N filter .They are notoriously "free" flowing ( read : more dirt goes past them )

    There is a reason why K&N has a large WARNING on their filters, stating that they are to be used only during "mild" weather and not when there is a lot of moisture in the air ( when it's raining)
    Oil and water do not mix very well.The water particles in the air (which contain the dirt) DO NOT adhere to the oil film on the filter.
    And when it gets cold, the oil viscosity changes and it's subsequently less able to hold the dirt.

    At least that how it was explained to me , and it makes a lot of sense.
    I have a lot of faith in the person who gave me this explanation and I removed my BMC filter right after the discussion.

    Hope this helps, use you own judgement."
     
  2. adamr

    adamr Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2002
    720
    Chicago
    I just threw out the K&N filter that was in my bike. The guy at the shop said go home and hold it up to the light... I did and it looks like it's full of pin holes.
     
  3. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Northern California
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    Greg Calo
    Ok so where's the part about BMC?

    What is the debate?
     
  4. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    The fact that you can see light through the K&N is what makes it a good filter. Don't believe everything people at shops tell you. K&N is an excellent filter and always has been.

    Ray
     
  5. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Debate as to whether it's worth putting one of these oiled filters in.
     
  6. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    I run them in all my cars.. they are good.

    Ray
     
  7. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    How would you really know how much dirt is getting through? I can see not worrying too much for racing applications but it might be different for daily use. It makes sense that these companies bank on some HP gains because it's hard to detect the downside. Make your own decisions on this one.
     
  8. RossoCorsaItaly

    RossoCorsaItaly F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 9, 2004
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    Kevin
    K&N makes a good product, but the fact that their customer service is terrible and the fact that many of their part #'s for Italian cars are incorrect is why I don't sell or use them.
     
  9. MufflerMan

    MufflerMan Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2005
    1,564
    Sacramento Ca
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    Colby Sandman
    The fact of the matter is, yes a high performance filter of any type will let more dirt into your engine. It is immpossible to get more air into an engine without allowing more dirt. It is the same with performance exhaust, you can't get more air out without getting more sound out, the key is to do it within reason. The main thing to remember is that most people that add these type of performance items to their car are the type of people that drive more "spirited" so to speak, and this type of driving will wear out parts far before some microscopic dirt particals will. Just my opinion. -C
     
  10. 360dragon

    360dragon Formula Junior
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    Dec 6, 2004
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    Adam C.
    Here is a thought. If there is such a serious problem with after market filters. Then why do we never hear of major issues or motors being damaged by dirt? I am not saying it does not happens but with so many people running after market filters it is hard to belive technology has not made them safe for cars.

    Just my 2 cents
     
  11. Dom

    Dom F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Nov 5, 2002
    8,489
    Good Point.

    The other "bad" thing I've heard about the K&N filters is that very often, they are re-oiled improperly (i.e., too much oil), which can cause issues with MAF sensors, etc. The workaround is to just replace the filter with a new K&N filter (since these come pre-oiled). Kind of expensive to do, but not that outrageous when you consider the general costs of ferrari parts.

    Dom
     
    8208 likes this.
  12. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
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    Jan 16, 2005
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    I think it simply depends where you live, Switzerland clean air, non dusty environment you can run what you like, both my K&N and BMC on my 996 TT and Stradale are fully deoiled and both cars go like a ROCKET vs OEM
     
  13. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    I will say I've got an K&N on my Ducati ST2 and the difference is significant.(that and removing some snorkel tubes ;) ) Oh well, the debate continues.

    I wonder if F would deny a MAS glitch if they figured you had an oiled filter? I guess it depends on the dealer.
     
  14. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    I've torn down several motors that were run with no filters at all (just open air horns) and they were fine. I have used K&N for many years and always had good luck.

    If you are running the Baja 1000, maybe K&N isn't the best choice, but for around town or on the track, it's fine. Just keep them clean and oil them more often if you think it's a major issue.

    Anyway, my view is that it's a motor, not a clean room fabricating silicon wafers :)

    Ray
     
  15. MufflerMan

    MufflerMan Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2005
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    Colby Sandman
    I had another thought on this subject. Imagine whats going on with the oil, gas, and anyother liquid traveling through an engine. Do you think there isn't little particules of dirt in those? Just a thought.
     
  16. 360dragon

    360dragon Formula Junior
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    I second the thought,.
     
  17. sanfran

    sanfran Formula Junior
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    Apr 10, 2004
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    Any input regarding power gains on a 360/430?

    Not one person detailed what is to be gained with an upgraded filer.

    Better throttle repsonse?
    Better low end, mid range, high end?
    Better gas mileage?
     
  18. 360dragon

    360dragon Formula Junior
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    All of the above in some cars.
    Some cars really do not gain much but the most common gain is better throttle response.
     
  19. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
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    Greg Calo
    I had a low speed hesitation in my 360 until I replaced with a BMC.

    It is now more responsive and that hesitation is gone.
     
  20. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Any feedback on the 430? Anything that's noticeable? Anyone have any issues with MAS that was not handled under warranty?
     
  21. leonard360

    leonard360 Karting

    Jan 6, 2005
    102
    Glendora California
    Full Name:
    Leonard Knight
    I just installed the BMC filters a few miles ago but the car does feel more responsive. I doubt any noticeable hp gains that you could feel. I like the crispness of the throttle response. If there are any problems with the sensors I will post it.
     
  22. 360dragon

    360dragon Formula Junior
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    Dec 6, 2004
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    Adam C.
    Honestly the only way you will have problems with the MASS air or any intake part is when you re-oil the filter you do not allow it to dry completely. The instructions are quite clear on the K&N oil cleaner kit, let it dry for at least 6 hours on the bottle I have for re-oiling my K&N.
     
  23. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    I have been told K and N doesn't make a replacement filter for a 360? SO?
     
  24. 360dragon

    360dragon Formula Junior
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    Dec 6, 2004
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    Adam C.
    Sorry for not clarifying the K&N filter is on my daily driver and my M3.

    I was just trying to make the point that whether it is K&N or any other brand. You need to let the oil dry before you reinstall it into the car. That way you will not have any MASS air sensor issues. Hence reading the directions on the bottle which I know some of us do not do...
     

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