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BMW M5 (E60) VS F430

Discussion in '360/430' started by F430-Monza, Oct 7, 2004.

  1. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,479
    Toronto - Canada
    Full Name:
    Spyderman
    You are right about it not making a lot of sense because you are wrong about the 360 CS doing the ring in 8:03!! The Ferrari CS does it in 7:56 minutes, which is not a bad time but the Porsche GT3 RS does it in an amazing 7:47 minutes. The difference in those times is a life time on a track!!!

    It must be that the Ferrari was tested in Germany by a german driver...hum..do you think they were lifting in some of those corners ;)

    All kidding aside, I find it very strange comparing the 360 Modena and the CS side by side on the ring!! (using the comparison section of the site) In some of the corners the Stradale was traveling almost 20 KM slower then the Modena!! Now that does not make any sense: the Stradale has no understeer to speak of, a better track set up by far, more power, stickier tires, quicker shifting speeds and is approx 180 lighter???

    In the turns Klosteral 1, Klosteral 2 and Galgenkopf the respective corner speeds of the 360 Modena was 176 km, 94 km and 140 km where the Stradale's corner speeds in those same corners were 158 km, 87 km, and 125 km.

    Oh well, it is in print so it must be true ;) :)

    The web site www.track-challenge.com
     
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  3. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,818

    Gorgeous shots. MB makes a very handsome and attractive saloon.

    In truth, the only places where the German HP/TQ wars mean much is on the autobahn and on similar European roads.


    Forza,


    Cavallini
     
  4. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

    Feb 13, 2004
    8,014
    SFL

    The AWD would most likely SLOW the cars down on a road course....
    RWD is FAR superior on the track, better balance.
     
  5. F430-Monza

    F430-Monza Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Sep 26, 2004
    295
    But with Merc AMG 65 series with 1000Nm of torque...it would be wise to fit 4WD to put the power down cleanly...that's why their next S class with those mad powerhouse engine will have 4WD !
     
  6. angshuman

    angshuman Rookie

    Jul 3, 2004
    23
    Full Name:
    NaN
    That was true of the E46's and E39's. The E90 starts up with 400bhp, and the Power or Sport or whatever button allows you to transition into full 500bhp mode.
     
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  8. McLaren_boy

    McLaren_boy Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2003
    355
    ATL but NOLA is home
    Full Name:
    Jonathan
    e90? Haha, I think you meant e60...anyways, when the car starts up, the throttle bodies only open 90%, which apparently limits the power to around 400hp, when you select P500 mode, the throttle bodies are allowed to open completely and the SMG shifts are quickened.
     
  9. alanhenson

    alanhenson Formula 3

    Dec 2, 2003
    1,335
    Some of you guys are so full of it. I am on my second M3(01 and 03) and they have both run flawless and I run mine very hard every time I am in it. That is one of the most incredible engines I have ever driven. And I am a member of a couple BMW boards and it is well known that these problems were confined to a few months during 2001 and they fixed those cars. I have never even met an owner on those boards that had an engine failure. That's how common they are.
     
  10. angshuman

    angshuman Rookie

    Jul 3, 2004
    23
    Full Name:
    NaN
    Oops! My bad, E60 it is... still waiting anxiously to see how the E90 turns out tho'...
     
  11. riverflyer

    riverflyer F1 Rookie

    Nov 26, 2003
    3,560
    Mendocino, Ca
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    John
    Now you've gone and done it. All the BMW dealers will be flooded with people trying to get their deposit in on the new 600 hp v12 e90 super coupe. I have been promised a Dec 07 delivery!
     
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  13. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    28,774
    Paris / Chicago
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    Andrew Menasce
    Both car are too heavy :(
     
  14. F430-Monza

    F430-Monza Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Sep 26, 2004
    295
    Imagine both are made of full aluminium or carbon fibre !
     
  15. angshuman

    angshuman Rookie

    Jul 3, 2004
    23
    Full Name:
    NaN
    400bhp V8... the E90's the new 3-series. Even uglier than the E60 IMHO (never underestimate Bangle :D).
     
  16. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Well, mine blew in a big way, and a friend lost his also. Those are the only two I know of personally, but it's still disturbing, considering how few people I know who own E46 M3s. It is an incredible car, especially considering the price.

    Gary
     
  17. Jimi900

    Jimi900 Formula Junior

    Jul 8, 2004
    523
    Tulsa, OK
    If MB were to put in a AWD system, it's going to be a very heavy one. To make an AWd system handle all that torque is it going to have to be very strough or they are going to be breaking parts left and right. In the BImmer the trany is what so amazing in that car. It is were all the speed come from. I know the motor is a piece of art but to have a trany made just for that car that leaves it in the power band all time is amzing. Having the "M" buttom that adds a 100bhp is pretty neat. The detunning of the car is for gas milage not reliablty. I think it is a sweet @ss car and wish I could afford one. I love Ferraris's but this new Bimmer takes the cake.
     
  18. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
    5,548
    TX
    Full Name:
    Sameer
    True but the weight is going to go up by another 150-200lb. But I agree that AWD will make the car more usable in all conditions
     
  19. iceburns288

    iceburns288 Formula 3

    Jun 19, 2004
    2,112
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles M.
    alanhenson, I have had this problem discussing videogames with friends. PS2's tend to break quite a bit, with DVD drive problems, etc. I have a friend that has no problems with his PS2 that he's had for 4, yet he acknnowledges there are problems with most systems. He has had problems with his Xbox, but I have had none, yet I admit Xboxes do tend to have problems. We are just lucky cases.

    Not every product that comes out of a factory is EXACTLY the same. Some never break, some break depending on how you treat it, and some always break no matter what.
     
  20. teflon

    teflon Formula Junior

    May 16, 2003
    330
    Full Name:
    Greg A
    The engine problems were not confined to certain months in '01 production. This is a fantasy. You are sadly misinformed. It appears that you are reading the wrong forums.

    Take a look at this: E46 M3 failure archive

    What do you make of that info?

    What year is your '03? If it was built before June or July you should be expecting a letter from BMW soon about the service action.

    I know the E46 M3 is a great car, but to deny it has engine problems is ludicrous.

    Greg A
     
  21. JohnH

    JohnH Karting

    Dec 31, 2003
    227
    New York
    Full Name:
    John H.
    Why is the E60 M5 being compare to the F430 and not the Maserati QP? The M5 is a four door sedan and the F430 is a pure bred sports car. If you want you guys should compare the F430 to the SL65, but not even. The e60 M5 is going to be a great four door sedan but if you are getting it to track then you are getting the wrong car. Forget the engine and forget the 7 speed SMG, it is still a four door sedan with a nice package.
     
  22. shawsan

    shawsan Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2004
    1,090
    Vancouver, Canada
    While I own neither the 430 or the E60 M5, I do own a 355 and an E34 M5. The E34M5 is heavy, smooth, and feels sluggish compared to the 355, even though my M5 was supercharged producing 465HP at flywheel. BUT, its a wonderful, 4 door marvel that you plan to drive across North America without a worry. The 355 is a wailing banshee, by comparison, a truly erotic driving experience. BUT, its totally impractical in all respects and I'll never drive it across NA because I don't want to break down and be stuck in a motel. No wonder Ferrari's have only 5-15K miles after 10 years -- they are like exceptionaly expensive jewels one wears to the occasionalf party. BTW, just getting my 30K service which, with shot manifold, will cost 10$ of the value fo the car.
     
  23. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Feb 13, 2004
    4,483
    Australia
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    Stephen S
    These arguments are asinine. Who is going to buy an M5 INSTEAD of an F430? If you can afford an F430, you will generally have another car as a daily driver. Most current model Ferrari owners that I know have three or four cars. Having said that, I literally just came back from placing an order on the new M5 after placing an order last week for the F430. If they are both great cars, doing differenr things why have one or the other?
     
  24. tubeguy

    tubeguy Formula 3

    May 21, 2003
    1,036
    Upland California
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    Kevin Deal
    The percentage of failed M3 is so small. I have greater faith in my M3 than any car I own or have owned. And I drive the crap out of it.

    There were 20,000 M3 in the USA affected by this "problem". 48,000 worldwide. The blown engines numbered at least 128 according to John Turkels website

    They will be doing the bearings on my car under recall. In one day. Perfect. As they always are.

    And I have a 6yr 100k mile warranty to make nice nice.

    Ferrari and Lambo won't cover a clutch at 2k miles.

    My Porsche 996 had the rear seal issue. No recall, no extension of warranty...though it was a serious problem.

    There is no doubt in my mind that BMW is a much better car than any exotic. But is has to be that way. Like anything you build, the more you make, the better you make them, can throw engineering hours at them, and figure out the bugs. It's true in my business too.
     
  25. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
    5,548
    TX
    Full Name:
    Sameer
    Hey Kevin ... you wont happen to have any pics of your MV Agusta handy huh?

    Thanks in advance
     
  26. ignacio

    ignacio Karting

    Feb 25, 2004
    235
    annapolis md
    any car as ugly as the m5 should not be mentioned in the same sentence as as a ferrari. bmw has lost its way. they are just about to screw up the 3 series, too!
     
  27. tubeguy

    tubeguy Formula 3

    May 21, 2003
    1,036
    Upland California
    Full Name:
    Kevin Deal
    Not a good one. I need to take some. Here is one. It is the greatest bike ever. Sooooo much fun
     
  28. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,818

    I must recant. At the grocery store last night I browsed a copy of Automobile magazine's feature on the new M5. It is stunning, by far the best of Bangle. Very masculine yet sleek for around the price as the QP.

    I can understand having a 430 and an M5, but a QP and an M5? I think the QP may be in trouble. It needs more horses....perhaps the 5.7 from the 575. I doubt Ferrari would ever do that but it would be lovely.

    Your thoughts,

    Cavallini
     

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