BMW Sauber accept decision to disqualify Kubica Due to excessive rain tyre wear | FerrariChat

BMW Sauber accept decision to disqualify Kubica Due to excessive rain tyre wear

Discussion in 'F1' started by racerx3317, Aug 8, 2006.

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  1. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    BMW Sauber says it has accepted FIA stewards' decision to disqualify Robert Kubica from the Hungarian Grand Prix.

    The rookie Pole's F1.06 racer was found to be underweight following the race at Budapest, and technical director Willy Rampf explained the discrepancy as due to excessive rain tyre wear.

    ''We must accept it,'' Rampf was quoted as saying by sport.rtl.de, ''(although) the FIA made it clear that there was no intention.''

    He also told China Daily: ''The ... tyres on Robert's car were in use for 51 laps and had sustained unexpected high rubber wear.''

    21-year-old Kubica, meanwhile, was quoted as saying on his website: ''The disqualification was very frustrating, but I am happy that I was able to show some good driving and I hope for a lot of another nice moments in Formula One.
    ''

    The stewards' unusually busy weekend at the Hungaroring gave rise to suspicions that the FIA was working to manipulate a closer outcome in the 2006 World Championship between Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso.

    Kubica's disqualification, for example, handed a belated point to Schumacher, who is now ten points behind Alonso.

    A spokesman for the governing body rubbished the theory, and F1 Supremo Bernie Ecclestone backed him up.

    The 75-year-old told Kicker magazine: ''Everyone must adhere to the rules.

    ''It is not the stewards' fault, they were only doing their job.''



    Ok now i'm curious. This handed a point to MS, all well and good but MS's own tires looked pretty well worn too. My question is since he retired the car, I assume that it wasn't weighed. There could be a chance that MS was underweight as well, so would he be subject to the same penalty as Kubica? It all sounds kinda fishy to be underweight because of tire wear, but i suppose it's possible.
     
  2. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

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    honestly, I think the reason that BMW accepted the DQ was they are trying to hide somehting else, and blame it on something that sounds logical...

    but that is purely speculation, and conspiracy.... afterall, a single point is pretty important even...
     
  3. RoWis

    RoWis F1 Rookie

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    Trying to hide something else like? and there is definetly something about the DQ and FIA trying to shrink the gap between Alonso and MS in points.
     
  4. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    I had the same feeling before but it's really strong now.
     
  5. curtisc63

    curtisc63 Formula 3
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    C'mon guys. If the FIA was trying to shrink the gap they would have penalized Alonzo for his "dangerous driving" with the RBR friday driver (Dornbaush sp) and left Michael get away with or given a lesser penalty for the "passing under yellow/red". For that matter, they would NOT have penalized MS in Monaco - when the point spread was even greater. The stewards are doing their job - a very tough one.

    The gap will get closer on its own. Bridgestone has levelled the playing field on tires. Ferrari has always had great reliability - as has Renault. However, I see that as Ferrari catches up Renault will begin to push their limits and may have mechanical issues...

    I am excited about the remaining 5 races. Only 10 points separating the combatants. It should be interesting...
     
  6. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    So was Michael's car ever weighed to give him the point? He had pretty excessive wear, too.
     
  7. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    I have no idea, they put the car into the garage and he climbed out as i saw on TV. I didn't see him go into the weigh station. Once he was out of the car I would guess it's too late to weigh it. I might be wrong but if i'm not it would seem a bit unfair to give Michael that point. Do cars that are retired weighed?
     
  8. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    I'd buy that excuse--sounds good to me!
     
  9. goachild2000

    goachild2000 Karting
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    FROM Formula1.com
    "67) No car may take part in the Event until it has been passed by the scrutineers.
    68) The scrutineers may:
    a) check the eligibility of a car or of a competitor at any time during an Event"

    also
    "7) if a car stops on the circuit and the driver leaves the car, he must go to the FIA garage immediately on his return to the pit lane in order for his weight to be established.
    b) After the race every classified car will be weighed. If a driver wishes to leave his car before it is weighed he must ask the technical delegate to weigh him in order that this weight may be added to that of the car.
    c) The relevant car may be excluded should its weight be less than that specified in Article 4.1 of the Technical Regulations when weighed under a) or b) above, save where the deficiency in weight results from the accidental loss of a component of the car."

    the case in question ... falls into a grey area..... but surprisingly enough .... none of the other teams (renault) have made a fuss about it. so i'm assuming the ferrari is in the clear.
     
  10. bretm

    bretm F1 Rookie

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    I'd venture that they weigh every car after the race as those guidelines specify, with the exception of those that are wrecked beyond weighing (ie, wheels and suspension all over the circuit, etc.). That is the norm for all open-wheel series from karting on up.

    All the teams have scales in their garages. Presumably they rolled the Ferrari in and weighed it with an FIA official watching.

    edit, or they just weighed MS and then brought the car to whatever central scales they use later on when the crowds are gone, etc.
     
  11. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    In Brazil 2003, Alonso collected six points for third after spreading his car all over the track (causing the race to be red-flagged).

    And he was in medical treatment during the podium ceremony. So he didn't exactly go straight to weigh-in either. (Although it says "on his return to pit lane", and I'm not sure he ever got back there (till 2004).)

    So Renault/Alonso would be the last to start nit-picking on that score.
     
  12. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    When Schumacher retired in the race, he had no idea that Kubica would be DQ'd. So the point he received after the fact was not planned at the time. He probably left the track thinking the day was a wash.

    For the 100th time, Kubica was DQ'd because he was about 4 pounds under the required weight. BMW gave the reason as being the tires, not the stewards, but is that the real reason the car was underweight? Probably, maybe, but we will never know, and at this point it does not matter. HE WAS NOT DQ'D BECAUSE OF TIRE WEAR!! HE WAS DQ'D BECAUSE THE CAR WAS UNDERWEIGHT, TRUE REASON UNKNOWN.

    And if there was a chance that Schumacher's car was underweight because of his tires, I would bet the Flavio would be right there with a protest. And possibly the reason the no other team protested, is because the entire tire excuse may be just that, an excuse (re: BS). The BMW could have been underweight for other reasons.
     
  13. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    4 pounds underweight is an awful lot if it's just tire wear. The 100th time? I didn't hear it the first time that he was 4 lbs off. The report i read didn't have how far he was off.
     
  14. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    Thank you.
     
  15. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    4.4 lbs over 4 tires is not much. 1.1 lbs lost per tire. The average consumer car tire weighs over 20lbs. F1 tires are wider and pretty tall, too. It wouldn't be surprising if that was the reason.

    Ron and I got into a bit of an argument about it because I thought the stewards said that was the reason, now I know what he meant. I probably read it the way I wanted to, ha!
     
  16. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    True enough but after watching the race again i didn't see MS's car ever get weighed, he just hopped out and went to the back of the garage. The way his tires were worn he could have been underweight too. Probably just a gray area, i don't think it's the FIA messing around, but still a bit unfair.
     
  17. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
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    You guys have too much time on your hands (and so do I).

    If they are cutting weight so close as to the TIRES on the car being the difference between making weight or not post-race, then they are nuts.
    For that matter, maybe the fuel guy was short a gallon on a refuel stop (7 lbs/gallon). Maybe Kubica is 4.4 lbs lighter than the previous driver ??

    I find in incredibly ludricous they are blaming this on rain tires, what would they have done if this was a dry, 98 degree race ? Add lead weight as ballast ?

    I'm not buying the tire baloney, I'm figuring someone forgot to do their setup homework. Or part of it.
     
  18. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Isn't the final weigh-in done without fuel? You'd be surprised at how close these guys cut it. Some are over the minimum by less than a pound.
     
  19. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    All i'm saying is why exclude someone for something and give someone a point to someone else that might have the same thing wrong with thier car but was never checked because the car was retired and maybe not weighed? Just seems a bit unfair. OK, say well if it's possible that the tires on the BMW were worn to the point that they might have made the car come up light the MS could have been light as well. Setup homework didn't mean much in this race with the changing conditions. In a dry 98 degree race you couldn't have possibly gone as long as some people did on thier intermediates. The drys would have worn to the point of no traction and would have had to be changed much sooner and been therefore heavier.
     
  20. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

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    +1
     
  21. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    Sorry, I didn't mean it be an argument, I am sure it was just semantics.
     
  22. goachild2000

    goachild2000 Karting
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    its true ... thats one of the reasons you will never see an f1 driver doing a burnout/donut after the race..they would lose tire weight. (also i'm sure there would be some penalty if they did that)

    ..... also if you notice ....after finishing ....they drive off the racing line to pick up marbles.... to add to their weight.

    im not saying that i completely believe the tire weight excuse proposed by bmw .... but i do know that tire weight is a relavant factor.
     
  23. Cape Fear

    Cape Fear Rookie

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    Correct. Fuel is not counted towards the car making minimum weight. Remember BAR's problems from last year.
     

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