430 - Bobileff Motorcar Co. restorations today | FerrariChat

430 Bobileff Motorcar Co. restorations today

Discussion in 'LamborghiniChat.com' started by garybobileff, Dec 29, 2020.

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  1. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    #1 garybobileff, Dec 29, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2022
    Today, there are 4 Miura’s in the sheet metal department in various states of chassis rust repair and chassis strengthening and panel gaps. The typical sheet metal used on Miura chassis is about 0.028”, and we exclusively use 0.042” steel on the chassis, which makes a huge difference in the stiffness of the chassis, when completed. Then, additional stiffeners are added inside the chassis members, where they are hidden. That yields even more strength. In the mechanical shop, there are two more Miura’s being assembled for final completion. That’s not to mention all the 350 and 400GT’s ( along with all the “red” cars, also) here.


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  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    After the first 125 made, the thickness of the sheet metal stated to have been used for the Miura chassis was 1 mm which = 0.0394". Earlier chassis, apart from the very first few with 0.8 mm = 0.0315" sheet metal, are stated to have used 0.9 mm thick sheet metal which = 0.0354".

    0.028" = 0.711 mm.
     
  3. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    Well, after restoring and rust repairing well over 150 Miura chassis over the years, I have learned many things. It is true that 1.0 MM thickness steel was used on the later chassis. But, that 1 MM steel was not used uniformly on the chassis. Only in certain areas, in limited quantities. I use 0.042" steel every where, and that is the primary difference in strength. The other area of achieved strength, is that all my chassis work is continuous welded, as opposed to the Factory's original " stitch weld", which is a small welded area, followed by a non welded area, then a small welded area again, so on and so forth.
    Gary Bobileff
     
  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    0.042" = 1.067 mm.

    The thinner areas could be due to corrosion?
     
  5. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    Thinner areas may be created by sheet metal corrosion, but the original manufacturing process only upgraded areas that were very prone to cracking. It would seem highly unlikely that the original chassis ever had a stress analysis done. Because if it had, many areas of the chassis would not be built the way they were. That said, as time marched on, repetitive cracked chassis areas would appear, and those were the areas of updates, and thicker material used. This construction technique is very common, highly stressed areas get thicker steel, smaller stressed areas still have the thinner steel . The end result is that even SV's have chassis problems and cracks, so all Miura's need to have their chassis reinforced, early , middle and late series. And with the cars flexing for over 50 years when driven, that in it self yields to a weaker chassis, and cracked welds and stress cracks, even if there is no corrosion . Just try taking a un- reinforced chassis on a Miura, and placing a floor jack on any underside corner of the car, and after jacking up, see how the panel fit and door opening and closing functions alter. Lots of flex in it's stock configuration. That doesn't happen after a chassis reinforcement.
     
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  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    Thank you for your replies. I'm aware that the early Miuras with the thin metal had chassis flex and twisting issues in the centre, but was that the case for later Miuras such as the later Miura S and SV chassis that have extra bracing, which is visible at the front at the side of the spare wheel area? A problem for purists is that reinforcing the chassis makes them non original in specification. Lamborghini Polo Storico will not restore a car to a different specification, or even in a different colour to how it left the factory when new. See here which is being discussed in this thread.
     
  7. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    Guess that's why ps may be struggling if they are only willing to restore to oe livery. The invisible improvements sound the sensible way to go as well as gauge increase and seam welding, all recognised ways of improving chassis/body strength.
     
  8. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    #8 garybobileff, Jan 4, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2022
    Here is an example of a late Miura S that is currently going through the restoration of the process here at Bobileff Motorcar Company.
    As you can see after the chassis has gone through media blasting, the chassis has multiple cracks that were covered by paint, this is very typical. Note how crude the welds are.
    So with the thicker sheet metal in the later car, you can see that there are few benefits.
    This is why media blasting is very important to reveal these flaws, most of the time these flaws are covered by paint – very typical.


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  9. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

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    Maybe it was trainee welder on the day that chassis was constructed?
     
  10. mt_jt

    mt_jt Formula Junior

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    Yes, “interesting and characterful” workmanship by the looks of things! Thanks for posting the photos. We often hear of these things but it’s nice to see examples from someone who knows what they’re talking about.
     
  11. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    The welding seen here, being extremely crude, is a typical representative of welding done on P400's, S and SV models. This is not the least bit unusual. Notice that in many of the cracked areas, they form right next to a weld, meaning that the temperature ( penetration and duration) of the weld was not correct when the chassis were initially made.
    Gary Bobileff
     
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  12. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    #12 garybobileff, Jan 5, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2022
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  13. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    #13 garybobileff, Jan 5, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2022
  14. George Vosburgh

    George Vosburgh F1 Rookie
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    It's really incredible! Will you clean all that up or leave it as an authentic restoration?

    I was out in Monterey for the show in 2019 and a Miura passed me on the highway. It was the best sounding car I have ever heard!
     
  15. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    The lower rear chassis was cut out and replaced, as once the Bondo was removed, it was really " beat up" and couldn't stay that way. Pic's on the way.
    Gary Bobileff
     
  16. Lemacc

    Lemacc Formula 3
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    Please share some photos of your early Miura P400! :)
     
  17. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    #17 garybobileff, Jan 7, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2022
  18. garybobileff

    garybobileff Formula 3
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    #18 garybobileff, Jan 7, 2021
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2022
    Notice in this picture, the steel file straight edge, and notice how buckled the upper chassis is from stress and torque. Obviously, this should not be bent and was corrected.
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  19. 2NA

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    This is not at all unusual. Apparently they were all "trainees".
     
  20. CarloR

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  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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  22. TTR

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    WOW !

    And I’ve always thought OEM structural welding on Daytonas & Dinos were exceptionally poor for any automotive manufacturer or their subcontractor.
     

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