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Boeing 707 - New Haynes Manual

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by Gatorrari, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I can't believe that I started working in the 777 program 28 years ago! Doesn't seem that long ago! When we were told that the airplane would be designed ALL ON THE COMPUTER, the response was ,"Yeah, that won't happen". But that's exactly what happened. THAT was a great program and managed by some great people and produced a great airplane.
     
  2. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Terry H Phillips
    Bob- That is when Desert Shield started, so both of us have reason to remember 1990.
     
  3. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Jim Pernikoff
    I headed to Seattle to work on the 777 in June 1991, so as you say, it will be 28 years in June. I'll admit that it doesn't seem that long ago. I still think of the 777 as a "new airplane"!
     
  4. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Taz, I think that you may have had a bit more excitement than I did at that time. Where were you and what were you doing?
     
  5. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I do too.
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Bob- We took the first contingent of F-111Fs to Taif, Saudi Arabia in August 1990. Loaded with GBU-15s and GBU-24s, plus external fuel tanks, because there were no PGMs in Saudi Arabia that early in Desert Shield. We were escorted there non-stop by KC-10s, which carried our support personnel and a bunch of spare parts. Around 10 hours for the trip, with multiple aerial refuelings.
     
  7. ralfabco

    ralfabco F1 World Champ
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    Israel Beiteinu
    As a kid I flew on a Delta Convair 880.

    Recently, I had the Convair postcard I collected, in my room.
     
  8. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Yeah, we had fun once in a while. That FlyThru tool identified a lot of interferences and was invaluable in getting everything installed. I may have mentioned it before but the first time we put everything , wheel well, wheel well doors, and landing gear, into the CATIA to check the retraction of the main landing gear, the math that was being done in micro seconds when all that stuff was put into motion bowled me over. We did find some interferences, too. The same thing was done with the TE flap retraction sequence. Incredible!
     
  9. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Better to find the interferences in the computer before finding them in the real parts. That was the real beauty of the electronic mockup. I understand that when they actually put ship #1 together, it fit like a glove.
     
  10. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Correct, Jim.The computer knocked off many months of manual design and a physical mock up to iron out all the kinks. It went right the first time.We got rid of the full size Master Model because all the lofting data was in the computer and physical stretch form dies, drill jigs, trim jigs, etc. were eliminated . They were digitally all there for the taking. When we tried to produce some parts in CATIA for the 747, they didn't fit because of the disparity in tolerances. The 747 was .03, the CATIA was 0.00, effectively. That entire program was an absolute joy to be a part of.
     
  11. Jaguar36

    Jaguar36 Karting

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    Flythru has been replaced by a new (well new as of like 2006) in house program, IVT on the commercial side. Defense side uses a Siemens product that similar. They both kinda suck though. Takes far to long to load the stuff that you need. Most of the time having a nice well done iso view would be sufficient and its a heck of alot quicker and easier to just look at drawing hanging on your wall.

    The interference stuff is all great... as long as the designers use it.
     
  12. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Another excellent new book on the 707, also from Britain. This one includes full coverage of the C-135 series as well. Particularly interesting are charts of every control panel in the cockpit, with all knobs, switches, levers and lights identified; even the flight attendants' panel in the cabin is included. There is also a chapter giving the complete history of the 707-138 now owned by John Travolta.

    The book is decidedly pro-British; the author admits having problems with American claims that the 707 was the "first commercially-successful jetliner", chalking that up to American "parochialism". He has extensive coverage of early U.S. jet-engine development, noting that all these engines, including the 707's, were heavily based on British designs. And he is critical of Boeing's vertical tail design and the "Dutch roll" incidents and accidents that it caused, noting that Boeing vertical tails had been inadequate going all the way back to the 307 Stratoliner! But if you ignore the author's apparent bias, it's a very complete and thorough book.
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  13. Bob Parks

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    Yeah, I experienced the same bias from the British engineers that came to Boeing in the 50's and 60's. The Dutch Roll mode wasn't caused by the tail, it was caused (and predicted by a German ex-patriot engineer, Henry Quenzler) by the over-stabilizing effect that 7 deg. of dihedral had when coupled to 35 deg. of sweepback. Both are stabilizing features in a configuration. He said that the 707 was a "stupidity" in the way it was designed. Henry was Chief Engineer at Dornier and had a lot to do with the DO 332 "push-pull fighter " and was one of its main test pilots. Did the author comment on the fixes that were made to the tails, like they were on done on B-17E, B314, and take a look at the B-47, B-52, B747, B757,B767, B777, and 787, that never needed a fix. I guess that the Comet was an initial success early on but you can't hang on to that title if your airplane falls apart after a few cycles.
     
  14. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Typo, should have typed DO-335
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Two Time F1 World Champ
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    He should have said the first commercially successful jet airliner that did not explode from metal fatigue.
     
  16. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Yes, Tay. I remember looking at photos of the many 3/32nd diameter rivets around the perimeter of the ADF window . Too close together, and a crack starting in the corner the radius of which was too small for the window. WW2 techniques that did not tolerate pressurized structures. However, the Brits did a magnanimous thing to publish their mistake and saved a lot of grief down the line. Boeing certainly profited from it.
     

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