Boeing beats Airbus... again!

All of the available volume cannot be filled with profitable load because the airplane can't fly the load. The load filling the main deck space would be all that the airplane could lift and all that space on the second deck would be empty. I don't know how much weight we are talking about and I admit it but if that entire airplane was filled with high density freight, upper and lower decks, it could not take off. I guess I'm talking about volume/density= profit.

 

It is not unusual for a 777 or 747F to fly max volume and not be at gross wt. It is also not unusual for a 777 or 747F to fly at gross wt and be considerably less than full. Same would hold true for an A380F. Fedex didn't cancel their A380F order because after waiting 4yrs Airbus told them they could only fly freight on the main deck. At the very least an A380F could carry the same wt on each deck as they currently do passengers (which wt would include people/seats/bins/galleys and contents/lavs/carry-on bags/etc).

 

When FedEx cancelled their A380 how far along in the freighter design process was Airbus? My impression is that it was early enough that freighter considerations were able to be removed from the ultimate pax design.

JCurry: You appear to have some extra knowledge on this. Were you part of the Airbus effort or with Boeing keeping close track of what FedEx/Airbus were up to?

 

As I recall the cancellation was attributed to delays in the program. Airbus was 2yrs late on the pax aircraft and so they probably were not very far along on the freighter, thus it would likely have been 3-4yrs more before Fedex saw an airplane on their ramp. I do not have first hand knowledge so I could be wrong about that. Given what happened to the air freight market following 2008 I imagine Fedex was very happy with their decision.

I have a vested interest in the air cargo world so I try to stay abreast of aircraft development in that sector. I'm not associated with either A or B.

 

With the infighting going on in senior Airbus management, no telling what will happen. Rumors the French government wants a stake again, too.

 

Sorry Terry? That would be VERY surprising: the french government already has 11,1% of Airbus and doesn't want more (besides, money is lacking). The "new" President is not in favor of increasing state participations, but rather reducing them as far as possible, and only if these state participations make strategical sense. The only recent news from the french governement about Airbus was three weeks ago, about the accusations of corruption in certain markets: as a shareholder, the french governement has asked Airbus for "full transparency" on the matter.
Rgds

 

Just what I read in AW. Should have said increase stake.

 

Well: for a start, no such information here. And then, I don't believe it would be possible anyway: the rule is that the french stake and the german one should be equal, and they are at 11,10 each. A french increase wouldn't make sense.
Rgds

 

Germany is also part owner, too, aren't they? Same percentage?

 

Absolutely: see my post above: each State has exactly the same percentage (If my memory, etc: France has 11,11%, Germany 11,09%). I don't think that one would be allowed to increase its stake without the other doing the same. Besides, our actual Government is not favorable to an increase of its participations; furthermore, there are has been no information whatsover about this these days here....

Rgds

 

Just a brief comment, having made a number of trans-pacific flights in both the A350 and 787, they are both nice planes. I find the 787 slightly superior in the cabin appointments and its air circulation system. The seats are good in both but again I slightly prefer the Boeing.

 

Well, no bragging from my part here (Actually, I am a Boeing fan...) so just the facts:
Another large order for Airbus, as Chinese Leaser CALC orders 50 A-320 NEO

http://www.deeside.com/leasing-firms-buy-100-a320neo-aircraft-separate-deals-worth-8-billion/

Rgds

 

Well the A320 is a good airplane, so they will keep selling and updating it. The widebody A330 neo, A340 and A380 on the other hand are all outdated. The A350 is the only good modern widebody they have, until they update the A330 or A380 again. I like the A350 other than the more narrow fuselage cross section they decided to go with. It seems an almost perfect circle fuselage would hold more cargo and passengers, but have a drawback of weighing more. We will see who is right as Boeing seems to like a perfect circle(good rock group also).

 

If you consider the A330neo to be "outdated", what would you think of the 777X?

 

The 777X has a new wing doesn't it. The A330 Neo is an update on the existing frame and wing.

 

I guess that I wasn't talking about floor space/usable volume. If all that available capacity was filled with high density cargo like in a 747F you couldn't get the airplane off the ground. I suppose that I will be shot down by the guru's but this is the way I see it. I see a cargo area loaded with what the airplane can handle and a lot of empty unusable volume above it....unless it is filled with very light air-filled cargo.

 

Yes, the 777X wing is carbon fiber with folding wingtips (about 12' on each wing).

 

Same is true for a 747F.

Thanks to e-commerce the average density of cargo in air freight is dropping.

 

As predicted.

 

A new order for 184 A-320 Neo, this for 13 different carriers, has been announced yesterday during Emmanuel Macron's visit in China. Its worth has not been given, but is estimated at about € 18 billion.
I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that order, as China has also confirmed its willingness to keep on splitting orders equally between Airbus ans Boeing, so that one should not modify the equilibrium.
Rgds

 

Still waiting for the official order announcement from Airbus or the Chinese. The A320 number is impressive but there are some stories that the eventual order could include A380s too. If true that will mean more to Airbus - someone besides Emirates with orders.

 

I can only imagine the discounts they would get on the A380. Unless they get their dream order from Emirates the A380 will end production in a few years. European tax payers be ware as they are paying for this big A380 mess care of Airbus.

 

How very, very true. Emirates has been saying that they won't commit to more 380s unless there are other airlines to help fill the production line. The other current operators have been saying that they won't expand their 380 fleet. And there does not appear to be any demand for used 380s.

The European governments are going to be stuck with big writeoffs since they provided direct cash as part of the launch aid which is forgiven if the aircraft does not hit production targets.

Airbus couldn't even get any VIP 380s. All those possibilities became 747-8s instead. And, if anyone wants to drag out the old VIP "order" by Prince Walid bin Talal, he never went through with the order.

 

Boeing is kickin' it!

Jan 12, 2018
Boeing Has a Backlog of 5,864 Airplanes

Boeing has a backlog of 5,864 airplanes. According to the company, the backlog represents about seven years of production work, which could boost the company's primary production facilities in Everett, Washington, Renton, Washington, and North Charleston, South Carolina.

This week, the company stated that it delivered 763 commercial airplanes in 2017. According to the company, that is more than any other manufacturer — a position they have held for six years now.

The company's backlog was boosted by 912 net orders, signaling strong demand for single and twin-aisle airplanes. According to the company's Orders and Deliveries website, the biggest customer in 2017 was "Unidentified Customer(s)," which accounted for 356 planes. The largest customer of record was flydubai, which ordered 176 of the company's 737s as part of a $27 billion deal at the Dubai Air Show in mid-November. That was followed by another 75 of the 737s ordered by Avolon Aerospace as part of an $11 billion deal signed around the same time.

The orders will help sustain the many direct and indirect jobs between the company's U.S. factories and the network of suppliers, particularly Boeing's footprint in Renton, Washington, which is where the company builds the 737 product line. Right now, they churn out 47 airplanes every month.

As of March 2017, the company employed more than 70,500 people in Washington state alone. Of course, that doesn't account for the few hundred employees who were laid off last April.

The 912 orders that Boeing received in 2017 are valued at $134.8 billion.

 

I guess with that backlog, the moving of work to SC hasn't hurt the workforce in greater Seattle too much.

Now that I'm a retired engineer, I can say that my stints on the design teams of the 767 and 777 were very satisfying, since they're the only aircraft I worked on the design of that I can actually fly in myself. And I love Seattle in the summer - as far as I'm concerned it's the best place to be in the U.S. in August (along with Portland and San Francisco).