Bosch Relay Behavior | FerrariChat

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  1. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior
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    Mar 13, 2016
    372
    Rancho Santa Fe
    As I clean up an electrical mess left behind on my 1989 Mondial t coupe US car and being a newbie at dealing with relays, I have the following istuation and I would appreciate feedback or guidance.

    Context:
    I tested all of my relays, and strangely, all of the Bosch 0 223 014 113 units appeared to fail. That seemed unlikely, so I ran further tests under load. I noticed that when power is applied and the circuit closes allowing current flow to both output pins as shown in the diagram I’ve attached.

    My question is:
    Is this the expected behavior? My understanding is that power would switch between pins 87 and 87a — not go to both simultaneously.

    I’ve also included a sketch of how the relays tested on my end. I find it hard to believe they could all be faulty, so I’m wondering if I’m misunderstanding how they’re supposed to work.

    Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide
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  2. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    R. Emin
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  3. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior
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    Mar 13, 2016
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    Hello @raemin. good to hear from you and thank you very much for the thread, I really appreciate it.

    THANKS
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Steve Magnusson
    #4 Steve Magnusson, Jul 26, 2025 at 11:37 AM
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2025 at 11:56 AM
    Your diagram is wrong for a ...113 relay (and also wrong for a ...101 relay). On a ...113 relay the two "87" pins are always connected together inside the relay as shown on the outer case and in this schematic:
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    and both "87" pins are labeled "87" on the bottom of the relay (ignore the jumper wire in this figure):
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    so for this ...113 relay:
    unenergized = terminal 30 connects to nothing (but the two 87 terminals are connected together)
    energized = terminal 30 connects to both 87 terminals (which are always connected together)

    On a ...101 relay, the internal schematic is this:
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    and the center terminal is the 87a the center terminal and the bottom terminal is 87 (again, ignore the jumper wire):
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    so for this ...101 relay:
    unenergized = terminal 30 connects to terminal 87a (terminal 87 not connected)
    energized = terminal 30 connects to terminal 87 terminal (terminal 87a not connected)

    PS Your relay labeled "5" is the special ...006 relay that has a "K" marking on it (your K marking is very faded). This relay works very like a ...113 relay when energized (terminal 30 is connected to both terminal 87 and 87b), but, when unenergized, terminal 87 is not connected to the center terminal 87b -- this is important for some lighting functions. It's internal schematic is:
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  5. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior
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    Mar 13, 2016
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    Hi @Steve-magnusson.260/and everyone, thank you very much for these great detailed message. I have now finally understood and tested, all my relays seem to be working fine so what I did next I lightly sanded every terminal to make sure connectivity is optimal and use some deoxit spay.

    Car started and go figure fog lights, which were the number one culprit are now working. Not sure What I did to make them work, but they are working

    On another note, I found additional but different relays as shown in the following photo. They were pretty new but different from the Bosch so I did not test them.

    I unplugged them and spayed deoxit I also unplugged the computer to inspect and added the deoxit as well.

    something called my attention, and that is that the fuses that are attached to the relays on the far right there was no fuse so I’m not sure if there is not supposed to be one so I plugged a five amp fuse just to see if anything changed, but so far I cannot tell.

    Do you know what are these relays for

    When I started the car, I have my ABS light on and flickers. I’m gonna Let it run and see if it goes away. If not, then I’ll have to troubleshoot that next. It was not lighting up before

    Thank you.
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  6. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior
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    Mar 13, 2016
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    Uff, another update:
    Upon celebrating my achievements of the day, and while trying to put the center console together, I realized that now the rear window defroster is not woring now, the switch in the center console does not turn it on, I checked the fuse and its good, I also tested the relay that happens to be shared between the defroster and the windows motor and coinsidentaly my drivers window is not going up while the passenger window works well.
    Any feedback is welcome.


    Additionally if anyone has a diagram or a photo of where all the cables under the center console connect to, I would appreciate if shared.
    When I when I disassembled the center consul, after picking the car up from the upholstery shop, I found some of the cables disconnected specifically some yellow and black, they do not seem to have a place where they should be plugged into and so I'm not sure how to proceed again, any feedback is super appreciated
     
  7. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    The Bosch aluminium case is easy to pry open. Once you've got access to the guts of the relay, you can spray deoxit, let it settle for a while and finally add some dielectric grease.

    These relays are bullet-proof... I've managed to source new genuine ones, the internal resistance is not better than old relays whose contact surface is broken-in.
     
  8. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior
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    Yes I have opened them, mine seem to be working perfect.

    I am almost done with the car, very excited. today something happened where my electric defroster, not sure if it’s for the rear glass or for the mirrors stoped working as well as the driver’s window.

    also, not sure what I did but the ABS light started flashing and then stays on hope this goes away once i start driving.

    Tomorrow I’ll tackle this.
    Thanks again for your help.
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #9 Qavion, Jul 27, 2025 at 2:41 AM
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2025 at 2:46 AM
    Remove the fuse you put in immediately. It is only for test purposes. Do not drive until you do so.


    Those coloured relays are for the Teves ABS system. They are not like regular relays. I don't have a diagram for the Mondial, but the pinout should look something like this:

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    Then go to electrical forums to see the debates over using dielectric grease on old components.
    Dielectric grease is one of the best insulators there is.
     
  10. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
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    Correct, the grease is for the pivot, not the contact... Based on my own experience, the contacts do not wear a lot, they are similar to breaker point (~4times smaller). Some burnt crude and oxidation can find their ways, and the swinging mechanism can be sticky, but the mechanism as a whole is sound, and worth cleaning.

    On the negative side, these relays do draw a lot of current (200ma just for the coil), and are making the relay panel quite hot. Also they do not have any kind of back EMF protection, witch may make the stereo "blip" from time to time. Last but not least Ferrari was creative in the wiring, so not all relays are compatible. For instance the relays that are protected by a diode are not likely to work on my car (a few relays polarities are reversed). So if one wants to use more modern relays, best to use relays that are protected by a resistor.
     
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  11. RicSinger

    RicSinger Formula Junior
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    Mar 13, 2016
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    Good morning and thank you so much for this feedback. I had no idea so I’ll be sure to remove the fuse first thing this morning.

    what I did was unplugged each one of the relays one at a time inspected and Dioxit spray, I also unplugged the ECU and sprayed dioxide to the connection and then I found the fault at the warning light on the odometer gauge

    I will go over this and I hopefully the fault will go away

    thanks again for your feedback
    Ricardo
     
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