Boxer engine out...

love this thread! !

 

Enjoying this thread, and earning something in the process.
With my 308 I was content worrying about timing belts and
now I have to add valves to my nightmares .

stephen

 

If I'm not mistaken the valves in the boxer are the same as the 308 2 valve which had a knowen problem with valves breaking. I pulled my 308 enigne part for this very reason. Age is NOT kind to sodium filled valves of this era. If they are indeed the same, ( I'll have to double check this) SI will have them in stock and ready to go along with the guides and seals if needed. The boxer also uses the same con rods as the 2 valve 308's

 

I think all Newman is trying to say here, is that as long as you have the motor out, why not replace a part that is potentially able to destroy your engine if it breaks. My 308 has 50K miles, and while it was apart at some point for high CR pistons and P6 cams, it still has its old sodium valves. Guides are worn some, valve stems are worn some, but they would work. But why? I worked around airplanes, and have been interested in them since I was young, and there is no way you would put those old valves back into an airplane engine. So why would you in a $25K-$35K racing engine? I just havnt decided yet on what valves to put back in it, and if they should again be sodium filled.

 

Does anyone know who was the manufacturer of the Ferrari sodium-filled valves? Porsches of the same era also used sodium valves, with almost zero problems. Makes you wonder if the problems are due to manufacturer differences or design/usage differences.

 

They are made in Italy is all I know.

This goes back to what I was saying earlier, both the 911 and BB are boxer motors with lower redlines than the 308 plus they get plenty of oil in the guides keeping them cool and dissapating the heat back into the head. With a worn guide the valve can't dissapate the heat as well and eventually breaks. You can tell they are in a oil bath by the occasional puff of oil smoke you get on startup from oil leaking into the cylinders from the guides a boxer motor trait.

The V8 and flat boxer motors are so different I don't think you can assume or expect the same failure rate as the 308 motors. These cars have been running for 30 years and if it were common to have valve failures in the boxer motors it would be well known now vs whats been happening with 308s. Their are so many other expensive things that can fail on these cars as well as you can get into the debate caused by the fear of a snapped timing belt and change them every 3 years to be safe as well, it seems some things get overblown here due to fear, if a valve breaks or belt snaps thats the risks we take owning and driving these cars.


I wouldn't tear apart a BB motor just to do the valves.

 

I haven't followed the whole thread, so excuse me if I'm covering old ground....

I once finished somebody elses abandoned 365 GT4 BB restoration. The engine had allegedly received new valves.

Anyway, many months of work, and eventually, the car fired up. I had it idling in the workshop, whilst tuning the carbs. All was well, until DONK DONK DONK DONK etc etc

it dropped an exhaust valve...... It hadn't even had a road test yet, and it hadn't had a big rev or anything... the valve head just fell off.

The secret of sodium valves and failure is lay up... the problem is internal corrosion that occurs whilst the sodium is at room temperature in it's corrosive state..... if the car has had lengthy periods of non use (I think thats ALL of them), then new valves are extremely wise investments.

That said, like all gambles, some pay, some don't.

The hard part is resisiting the snowball... once the heads are off, do you keep going......

I prefer not to, but the line is fine.

If you can afford to do it (and if you can't afford NOT to do it), get them done at the major service.....

if they drop when in use, not only will it cost much more, you'll be without your car for much longer... which is what really matters.

 

Forgot to say, that 365 valve failure I experienced was a long time ago now.... late 80's, maybe 1990... but basically, the valves were a maximum of 15 years old at the time, but the car had been laid up for many years already.

 

I think this might be the best Boxer thread ever.

Thanks for taking the time to keep us updated.

 

You may be nearing the limit of photos allowed for unsubscribed Fchatters....5MB, IIRC.

 

Hey... do you you have any idea how close you are, and how easy it would be to fit a set of hi compression pistons!!

See.... resisting the snowball.....

Hard, isn't it....

 

Does this engine really have to cams pr. head, but only 2 valves pr. sylinder??
GREAT thread btw!

 

Can the head surfaces on the block be cleaned or do the studs need to be removed and the block planed to true it up?

Thats good the heads seem to just pull of on the flat 12s unlike the early V12s which require special custom pullers.

 

I have heard VHT brand Natural is close for the carb cars, someone also used Aluminum on a BBi as well which worked well.

 

Not to steal Robert's thunder because this is a great pictorial. But I think that Boxer owners will all be impressed by this thread from another *cough cough* Ferrari board.
http://www.*****************/discus/messages/31/11440.html?1138315218
Hope this helps Robert as well. I look forward to seeing the rest.

Sorry, but the link will not complete on this site and I don't want to get banned. The *** need to be filled in with ferrari-t@#& to get the link to work
Sorry to the moderators, but it really is impressive and I don't know the legalities of pulling photos from one site and posting on another.

 

FYI
It is under the restoration section and then 365bb.

 

Regarding the last two photos in this last set: What are those sheet-blocked ports above each cylinder?

 

I would guess it provides access to the cranks and their bolts, so pistons can be removed from the block without having to split the to block-halves or taking the gearbox-assembly off?

 

The sheet blocked ports appear to be the intakes.

 

Help! Where are the folks with pics?

Drew, the intakes are in the heads! Remember it's a 180deg. V12, you can't get to the crankshaft like on the V8-bloks.

 

Yes Kingpin is correct. Those are access ports so you can tighten the connecting rod bolts. I have a TR with a flat-12 so I'm biased, but aren't these motors cool !! So different and unique. And they are really well built physically...very tough. They don't suffer from the flexing that normal crankshaft retaining cap-type motors have. I've heard that the blocks do get some "twist" forces, but TR/Boxer motors have been built up to 1000 hp and seem to handle it. I'd love to see Ferrari do a more modern version of the good ol'e boxer-12.