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Boxer Fuse Block Upgrade

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by samsaprunoff, Feb 24, 2007.

  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    Ross
    hi sam. am late to this thread but i could use one of your fuse boxes too. do you still make them?
     
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  3. jenso

    jenso Rookie

    Jan 10, 2007
    38
    same here for a bb.
     
  4. 4redno

    4redno Formula 3
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    Mar 21, 2006
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    Keith Mitchell Wintraub
    Let me know if you go back into production.

    Thx.

    Keith
     
  5. jzihla

    jzihla Karting

    Mar 26, 2010
    107
    Carlsbad and Kauai
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    John Zihla
    I would like one also for my '79 BB CARB BOXER!!
    Is it available?
    Thanks!
    John Z
     
  6. SFM5s159

    SFM5s159 Karting

    Jan 22, 2014
    80
    Cincinnati, Ohio
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    Mike C
    +1. I need one also. '77 BB.

    thanks,
    Mike C
     
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  8. qubdent@comcast.net

    May 14, 2008
    44
    USA
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    Lucky Dog
    Sam,
    You are needed!
    :)
     
  9. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day qubdent@comcast.net,

    Thanks for the "Page" :) and also to all those that are interested in my "old" blocks.

    My apologies for not responding sooner, but I have a lot going on right now.

    I sold the last of my fuse blocks years ago and so I do not have any currently available. I may have a few of the small 2-fuse BBi fuel pump blocks... but, I will have to check.

    As for creating more of the "big" fuse blocks... I could, but I need to see what quantities of the block base material I would need to purchase, as well as confirm the cost/schedule to CNC mill them from my Machinist. The Electronics/PCB is not an issue, as I can have these made in about a week or so, but it is the base material that is the potential unknown. When I made these blocks years ago, I had to buy full sized sheets (both white and black) + pay for transport, as the material is not locally stocked. Ideally, I would prefer to injection mold the bases, but the setup/tooling costs are just too high given the volumes needed. I could get them 3D printed... but the issue here is cost, quality (so-so), but also that the 3D plastic is not well suited the high temp needs of the blocks (remember these blocks are stuffed into a glove box where inside cabin temperatures can get quite high in the Summer). CNC'ing is a bit old school, but the output quality and sharpness is hard to beat!

    I will check into what it will take to make some more and report back, but in the mean time if your blocks are currently knackered you will need to either purchase some OEM replacements or use the Birdman's blocks.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  10. qubdent@comcast.net

    May 14, 2008
    44
    USA
    Full Name:
    Lucky Dog
    Hey Sam,
    Thanks for the reply.
    I agree CNC is the crispest product ..... However, pragmatism should prevail.
    If you do a production run I would be interested in replacing all three blocks ..... Mine is an '83 BBi.
    Keep me posted please.
    Best regards.
    Carlo

    BTW all ...... Saw a beautiful primrose plexiglass Daytona in Orland Park last night ! ..... Made my night
     
  11. Frank R. Masiarz

    Nov 10, 2003
    126
    Full Name:
    Frank R. Masiarz
    Hi Samsaprunoff.......

    Would love to have one of your upgraded Boxer fuse blocks. My block melted years ago and I replaced it with an OEM part. But it will melt again.

    Also suggest replacement of the OEM ignition module on Boxers. The unit in my Boxer died years ago and I replaced it with an MSD 6AL module, which improved cold start and road performance immensely.

    My 1976 Boxer is currently undergoing a complete restoration. Can't wait to get it back !!

    Have fun !

    Frank........23005
     
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  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    in the description of the MSD 6AL is standing it is for 4, 6 and 8 cylinders. how did you do it with your 12 cylinder???
     
  14. Frank R. Masiarz

    Nov 10, 2003
    126
    Full Name:
    Frank R. Masiarz
    Hi......

    Great question !!

    MSD 6AL unit must be sent to the factory for recalibration for 12-cylinder operation. Doesn't take much time or money. OEM unit wouldn't start a "cold" engine quickly at all....always ended up with laborious "cranking" sessions and an almost dead battery and/or fouled plugs. Engine fires almost immediately from "cold" with MSD unit. And "cold" is only 55 degrees Fahrenheit or 13 degrees Celsius.

    Find a competent technician to install it.

    Frank......23005
     
  15. Frank R. Masiarz

    Nov 10, 2003
    126
    Full Name:
    Frank R. Masiarz
    Hi again......

    Just spoke to MSD technical support person in Texas today !!

    New digital 6AL units can not be recalibrated for 12-cylinder operation. Older analog units....such as the one on my Boxer....could be so modified at the factory.

    So you will need to seek another vendor for a better ignition module. Any suggestions from forum members ??

    Sorry for the false lead !! Nothing ever stays the same !!!

    Frank.......23005
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    what MSD 6AL could be upgraded?
    to what serial number or what year?
    I will look then for a used one
     
  17. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,011
    Madison Ohio
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    David A.
    Try other ignition boxes other than MSD. been hearing some quality issues.

    Ago
     
  18. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    854
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Mikael
    I just separated two +12 wires, pluged MSD box and run it without rev limiter, works fine, only to remember that "Multible Spark" aspect runs lower rpm.
     
  19. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    so how many rpm you can go then?
     
  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    can you please explain better:
    you separated two 12 V wires??? where they go then?
    what you understand under "Multible Spark"? because of the distributor you still have a full sequential ignition, so not half sequential. why then multiple sparks?
    you still have one coil and one distributor, right?
     
  21. Frank R. Masiarz

    Nov 10, 2003
    126
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    Frank R. Masiarz
    Supernaut likes this.
  22. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant Owner

    Dec 26, 2001
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    Newman
    Don't bother with the 6AL just get the 6A and install it. No mods required it just lacks the limiter. Only the injected cars had a limiter and it's not really needed.
     
  23. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    just now my igniton is working fine. I only want to get knowlegde if some day there are problems what I can do then.

    so paul, the 6A would work fine without any modification?
     
  24. mikael82

    mikael82 Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2007
    854
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    Mikael
    I had to separate two +12V wires, that is together in original wire loom; no big deal, original socket is with 6 holes and only 5 is originally used.
     
  25. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant Owner

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    Correct, zero modification
     
  26. Frank R. Masiarz

    Nov 10, 2003
    126
    Full Name:
    Frank R. Masiarz
  27. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    thank you paul for the info

    but when I read here: Digital 6A Ignition Control - 6201 it says in the instruction that you only can decide between 4, 6 and 8 cylinders, not 12. so how is this working then? I think as you have already written here in post no. 196, this is only for the limiter. the ignition itself does not know and also not care about how many cylinders.

    may I see it right: max. 11000 rpm for a 8 cylinder ( 4 stroke ) means 44.000 sparks a minute.
    that means for a 12 cylinder a max. rpm from around 7333

    I´m right with my thinkings???

    what is the MDA 6A doing when you will go over those 7333?
     
  28. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Romano,

    The standard (i.e. no rev limiter) MSD unit does not care if the engine is 12 cylinders, as the spark is triggered by MSD's trigger input... so with 12 cylinders more triggers will occur RPM and thus more pulses on the trigger input.

    As for the multiple sparks...you have to take the MSD's marketing info with a grain of salt, as this is not entirely correct... well not across the entire RPM range anyway... Indeed, you do get multiple sparks, but usually only at lower RPM. The reason is that physics behinds how CDI (Capacitive Discharge Ignition) works and how it is implemented. Effectively, as the RPM increases the time with which to produce a spark becomes less and less (because the spark frequency becomes higher and higher)and there is a point where the electronics cannot generate the energy fast enough in order to produce multiple sparks. I saw some MSD analysis data a while back and I seem to remember that at high RPM (say over 5K or 6K) that only one spark is actually generated.... That being said, in the majority of cases multiple sparks are needed mostly at low RPMs, as this is where plug fouling is most predominant.

    As for the MSD units themselves... I had a weird MSD issue that manifested itself over time. In my case the MSD unit would function fine for about 20-30 minutes (until the unit got hot enough via the engine bay, etc) and then it would cause a intermittent miss. It took a lot of time to track it down, but it was the MSD unit itself. From the numerous Internet posts I have read it would appear that this issue is not uncommon and so the MSD units are not entirely bullet proof. They are certainly better than the Factory units, but still have issues. I simply replaced the MSD unit and all is fine, but I have looked at the possibly of building my own CDI module and tailoring it to fit inside the original factory enclosure... If I do this I will even replicate the original "whine" as was present with the originals, as at some judging events the judges will (apparently) deduct points if the whine is not present...

    Cheers,

    Sam
     

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