Boxer headlights-The final frontier...? | FerrariChat
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Boxer headlights-The final frontier...?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by fastradio, Jun 14, 2008.

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  1. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #1 fastradio, Jun 14, 2008
    With the chassis finally sorted out on my car, after years of dealing with the "vague" handling issues...I want to drive her as much as possible during the few nice months of the year we have here in New England. The chassis is now as crisp, if not maybe even more so than my M3, and the BB just loves the curvy roads here. Just too much fun!!

    Unfortuately, the headlights have never really worked that well (very dim) and the "high beams", well...they haven't worked in many, many years. So, any evening excursions have to be cut short. The headlight issues are the only electrical type problems I've had with the car since I got her. I do recall though, at some point, that the high beams did actually work.

    On to the initial diagnosis:

    -Low beams work
    -Passing "beams" work, when the stalk is pulled back
    -When the high beam lever is in the "down" position, all the headlights are off
    -Parking lights do remain on

    I pulled the headlights out yesterday to inspect the bulbs, as I've never looked at them, nor replaced them before. Wow, she still had the original Carello H1 bulbs in her; all of which were very cloudy and burned looking. Nasty! A quick voltage check at the low beam connectors indicated 11.67 volts, a bit lower than the 12.21 volts I measured across the battery. Not good, but at least this helps explains the low light output. New bulbs on the way...

    The wiring diagram: What we're they thinking when the lighting circuit was designed? Four fuses and two relays, at least?? Could they make the wiring diagram any more difficult to ready? Somewhere, I've got an enlarged version of this...

    Before I pulled that dreaded floor panel to inspect the main relay and attempt to "pin out" the column switch, has anyone gone down this path before on a BB? I suspect that the voltage drops should be pretty easy to find...although the fuse boxes are in perfect condition, with no signs of burning or loose connections...

    Regards,
    David
     
  2. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    #2 RP, Jun 14, 2008
    Replace the lights that were probably meant for European regulations with modern units. Keep the originals in storage. On the BBi, I was going to replace the flashers in the grill with similar sized dual beams, would act as driving lights, and also flasher. Would keep original appearance and was cheaper than replacing the original headlights with modern units.
     
  3. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #3 fastradio, Jun 14, 2008
    Ron,

    That's a great idea...I was just looking at the Hella e-code lights that appear to support the "city light" bulb that the 365 uses instead of a parking light in the front. My Carrello's are in mint shape...and it would be a great loss to lose one to a rock.

    As I have a single filament bulb in both the high and low beam lights, it will take a small modification to utilize the dual fillament H4 bulb that typically come in the 5.75" low beam...but, at least then, I could see soemthing at night!

    Regards,
    David
     
  4. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #4 donv, Jun 14, 2008
    Here's a related question: Any thoughts on why one of the headlights, the left one in my case, would "wink" (i.e. go up and down several times when the lights were raised or lowered, before settling into the selected position)?
     
  5. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #5 fastradio, Jun 14, 2008
    Left headlight> Usually means that the car is due for timing belts. The "wink" feature is the service reminder...

    Actually, they can wink for a few reasons.
    -Microswitch contacts dirty, or mis-adjusted
    -Internal motor/transmission contacts dirty
    -Current sensing diodes on motor housing failing/failed

    On the last item, Drew wrote a tech article awhile back describing testing and replacing of these diodes.

    Regards,
    David
     
  6. PWehmer

    PWehmer Formula 3

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    #6 PWehmer, Jun 14, 2008
    A glitch I keep working on

    Could you explain the "internal motor/transmission contact"? Where are these located?

    Also the relay or relay board could also cause this couldn't it?
     
  7. Mario Pano

    Mario Pano Formula Junior

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    #7 Mario Pano, Jun 15, 2008
    The original head lights on a Boxer are Cibies with halogen(iodize vapor) bulbs.Page 99 on the owners manual.
    My car has very bright Hi beams and all four of them say Wagner at the bottom of the glass.I have been told that was a sure change after a car was made legal for the US since the Cibie lights are incredibly bright on high beams and true worthy to these cars for speeding at night....but illegal in the US
    Most rally cars of the past all used cibies they are well known for being able to produce too much light without drawing much elecricity
    Very expensive too since the front glass is crystal.I wonder if anyone might have any for sale that came out of these cars.
    It would be nice to hear what brand of lights other boxers have here in the US?
     
  8. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #8 fastradio, Jun 15, 2008
    On the external part of the motors are covers that screw on. Behind these cover are contacts with "tell" the relays that the motors have positioned the headlight doors up or down. Over time, the contacts can get a bit dirty...and/or the grease gets so hard that the motors may initally labor to engage these contacts.

    Remove the motors for the car...and pull the covers. You'll see the contacts under the "roundish" covers...I'd do this, and test the diodes (per Drew's tech article) before I yonder into the relays.

    Regards,
    David
     
  9. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #9 fastradio, Jun 15, 2008
    Actually, the original headlights were Carello's ", utilizing a single fillament H1 bulb in both the low and high beams. Boxers that actually went through DOT compliance (may have) had these non-sealed beams replaced with the USA-variety sealed beams, such as Wagner's, etc. These replacements were far inferior to the Euro-specs lights, but pacified the DOT.

    Both Cibie and Hella e-code (Euro-spec, non-sealed beams) are still available, even here in the States. These lighs are not DOT approved and are specified "For off road use only", most Inspection stations wouldn't know the difference.

    Regards,
    David
     
  10. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 donv, Jun 15, 2008
    Thanks!

     
  11. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #11 LightGuy, Jun 15, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2008
    I do low voltage lighting for a living ( landscape lighting but the concept/bulbs are the same ).
    11.67v is actually pretty good for a 12v system. You would not be able to visually tell the differance between 11 and 12 volts unless the bulbs were right next to each other for comparison.
    This sounds like an Amperage problem; Flow rather than pressure ( volts ).
    Make sure the grounds are secure. There may be a problem with contacts, fuses, or relays being dirty or loose. Possibly a partially cut wire will give 12 volts but not allow any flow as an example.
    Bypass (with a jumper ) one component at a time to see where the fault lies; Isolate the bad unit. Have fun. ;)
     
  12. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
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    #12 fastradio, Jun 29, 2008
    After way, way too much thought, and not realizing just how simple the hi-low beam circuit really is, despite the ever so convoluted wiring diagram...the curprit is the column switch. The contact wiper on the headlight arm just isn't making a good connection as it sweeps across the hi-beam contact.

    Next step: Removal and disassembly of the column switch. (The good news is that all the internal parts appear intact).

    More later...


    David
     
  13. Finitele

    Finitele Formula 3

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    #13 Finitele, Jul 10, 2008
    Very suprising!
     
  14. wlanast

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    #14 wlanast, Jan 12, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I LOATH U.S. sealed beam headlights that replaced the wonderful factory installed Carellos for the Belgian market, through which my BBi passed to get to the U.S.

    After years of procrastinating, and even more trying to find the correct units for my car, I received a wonderful Christmas present under my tree:

    4 correct Carello H4s, 2 497s and 2 521s that are rare as hen's teeth (in good shape.)

    I got around to installing them, here a few pictures. (Obviously, the H4s on the driver's side, Wagner garbage on the passenger for comparison)

    These Carellos are arguably the best lens design for night lighting optics with a defined cutoff for safety. Between the better bulb and superior design for properly focused light, the different between them and the sealed beam light diffusion monsters is literally like emerging from the fog.

    Thrilled with the result, the little night driving I do will be done going forward with confidence that I can properly react to perils.

    Can finally post in this thread after David properly pointed me in the right direction to find the correct headlights! Thanks!
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  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    #15 turbo-joe, Jan 13, 2016
    you are sure H4 and not H3?
    H4 is a dual lamp for low and for high beam and has normaly 12 V 75/70 W but there are on the market for ships and planes 12 V 100/100 W. in EU not legal for street use but very good light :)
     

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