Thanks man! I did have to buy a single small decal to put on her.. Nod to Sammy Hagar. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yesterday auction in Paris... https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/pa22/paris/lots/r0039-1975-ferrari-365-gt4-bb/1199735 https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/pa22/paris/lots/r0046-1978-ferrari-512-bb/1199747
The 365 BB is a nice restoration candidate. Would look great brought back to its original Azzuro livery.
I wanted to get a set of wheels that could handle some modern rubber, rather than the original TRXs or any tires for 15" wheels. I got a set of 17" Carobu-like wheels on E-Bay for $1600, plus a modest shipping cost back in 2012. The wheels were made by some company in Georgia, I think. They are identical in appearance to the Carobu wheels, which even back then cost much, much more! I bought some octagonal hubs from Tom Shaugnessy at a reasonable price. I've retained the original wheels and the 3-eared knock-off hubs. I'm running BFG Sport-Comp 2 tires and have been very pleased with the performance and the longevity with "normal" driving as well as doing track events including being at Daytona for the FCA meet in 2017. I'll be switching to the 225/50/17s this year up front for a lighter steering experience along with close to the same overall diameter. I put a new set of 275/40/17s on the rear late last year before my engine-out service. Will attach a pic of the car w/ the wheels below. Glad to see so many Boxer lovers out there! Dr. John Image Unavailable, Please Login
What size are the wheels you’re using? I’ve just ordered some 17 x 7.5” for fronts and 17 x 8.5 for rears from Group 4 wheels who have pretty good write ups, and was looking at having the rears wider than the fronts as compared to standard metric tyre sizes, any thoughts on the best combination for these size wheels? Also do you have a contact for the hubs? Photo looks good [emoji106] Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I have the group 4 wheels "17 and have 255/45 rear and 245/45 front, but would do 225/50 fronts for a lighter feel as John states. A friend runs 275 on the rear, but I have read 275 is over what is recommended size for a 8.5 rim. We all encouraged the mfg to go atleast "9 width when he asked for input, but he did not. I switched over my hubs or you can purchase an additional set from either superformance or eurospares both in england.
Thanks, after a fair bit of research last night I think I’ve come to the same conclusion as this keeps the overall size similar to original and similar to each other. One very useful tool I’ve found for tyre comparisons is this website https://tiresize.com/comparison/ Hope this helps anyone else in the same predicament Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Completely agree — 12 cylinder and clam shell, very few cars w clams shell and they ALL command seven figures. Just paid $305k for 84’ BBI and very comfortable with that buy.
Interesting points, however, IMO Ferrari’s especially vintage and classic are about the passion and personality of each vehicle - the flaws realized over time again IMO add to that personality (how many have ever drive a Countach and we all are aware of their present desirability and price). MOST importantly - the clam shell, what more is there to say. Testarossa, love them but pedestrian in comparison. Image Unavailable, Please Login
having somewhat briefly owned a Ct I can say that it a vastly overrated car to drive. However to look at, there's nothing like it, in period it was also considered the "fastest" car made, these factors explain its desirability. The Dino, well you're sorta getting that classic 60s ferrari look of a275 era for 1/3 the price in something easy to drive and live with. That also explains the enduring appeal of aircooled 911s, they're classic and they work easily on the road, they require little of the owner/driver. in period for various reasons the boxer slipped through the cracks. it sorta looked like a 308 and was not as "fast" as a Ct or arguably even its predecessor. In todays world, to drive a Bb hits all the spots of a classic, with he added bonus that it can turn and work. It has the smoothness and response of a classic ferrari 12, It drives like the classics in a good way, is just civilized enough to be comfy on road for an hour or two, it can hack it with the moderns, and its Reponses and reflexes are close to that of a track car(wihin its limits). Its pretty close to what 288 is for 10% and in some ways (looks and 12) better. in period the boxer was considered cramped compared to the daytona, harder to drive, hot, and not as fast. In period there was little appreciation for its ability to do twisties as this was a new concept to the then drivers. The fact that back then the boxer made a ppoor Gt car comapred to the boxer may have been an issue, today its irrelevant as these cars are driven for an hour or less at atime. Whereas you can use a boxer several times per week and its a great weekend drive, where exactly can you really use a daytona to crush continents, which is what that car does well. It is the contemporary interpretation that makes the boxer. its still the connseurs choice in a world that lives flash for cash, so in some ways a hard sell. yes the clamshells say it all. But exotic ahem "collectors" are pretty clueless about cars and are buying lists like art buyers buy names. Itrs up to us to educate about the boxer. i spent the summer tracking my lotus and running about in the e46 m3. For various reasons mainly available time i did not use the boxer. Last week due to moving cars about I pulled it out, and spend 3 days using it. The smoothness and tq were revelatory, next came the steering and suspension which felt track like and softened just enough for the road. Add to that the way it shifts and drives, its a class of one, there really is nothing else quite like it. In todays world where vmax is not really a reality the boxers 165-170 top speed is irrelevant, between 30-140 it can take on all comers.
I have 275 rears and 245 fronts. Love the 275 rears they fot great and the rear is planted, the 245 fronts are in theory not much wider than the Michelin 240s. Bit i drove Newman Bb which had the original 215 fronts and steering feel was lotus revelatory. Ill go 225 fronts next time without even thinking about it, even if that mans slightly narrower rears.
All good points - I agree that when it was introduced the design to most was somewhat mundane (especially when compared to the CT- by the way I had the CT poster on the wall next to the Heather Thomas poster) and has design similarity to the IMO lesser 308 (albeit I love 308’s). The design again IMO has somehow moved from a more pedestrian Ferrari design to vintage, curvaceous and probably one of the most well executed designs of its time (CLAM SHELL emphasized) whereas the CT (w the exception of the very early Lp400 and low body cars w out the add ins and undersized tires/wheels) is reminiscent of a home made kit car. AGREE we need to educate the market about this car, very important to the history of Ferrari — to me a value play whether they are presently worth $250-400K. IMO undervalued by at least $200K across the value range because of its beauty, competency and experience it’s provides ….. ironically now making other period cars mundane and pedestrian.
We have been working with a few BB's over the last few months. They really are incredible Ferrari's. I have a 365 BB that I'm preparing for sale. Having an early car side by side next to a few Carbureted BB's to compare. Very important part of Ferrari history. Great value for the drive experience. Driving a Daytona and a Boxer are such a treat. This is great overhead view of two great 12's.
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I agree with all your points. Yes the design has evolved in the mind. I relent when a muira was stuck at 1/2 the value of a Daytona. Ghiblis we’re worthless, not worth restoring, massed 3500 were 30l redone etc, we’re taking late 90s when there was already an establishes collector car market. late 80s they were saying a 288 would never be worth much cause it looked like a 308. what all of the cars above had was an intrinsic design and performance value. It just took a while for the “followes” to have driven up the price of the established collectibles and the. Be told that the above were truly exceptional cars. Tue 60s Aston Dbs went through a. Similar curve. At some point certain cars hit the consciousness. What they all have in common is intrinsic beauty and performance/engine design/sound etc. the boxer is certainly one of those. last cycle in the early 2010s boxers were hitting 400k. Somewhere they will Elevate to the next tier. I think the same of euro 308gt4s, a useable stratos/countach. seems like there is a lot more activity/interest in boxers and the collectors with actual taste all seem to have added them. The cars are also helped by people like Newman who can bring them back to full fettle, something that didn’t exist 20 years ago. if you think of the Dino market, there are Basicaly restored cars these days, occasionally a preserved one and very few of any resto candidates. In fact many are being retired from their prior less that perfect restorations, same as Miuras. boxers are just really entering the cycle of their first restorations. There are also a fair number of BBI’s with low mileage so cosmetically really nice/orig but needing a complete mechanical refresh. there are also new “revelatory” YouTube reviews of these cars saying how great they are. And that’s the thing, at the twilight of the ice era the boxer is one of life’s great asthetic and driving experiences. There’s probably only 100 top tier euro car Models on that list from the post ww2 period. Excluding air cooled porches and etypes, maybe a total fleet of 30k cars: lots pore people with $
I've had mine a while, it was parked for so many years that once the Engine out was started we kept finding more and more. We replaced everything from bearings to seals etc. One thing I had done was an A/C upgrade which will be very nice in the summer months. All the original parts were kept of course. Service is expensive however the car is just amazing. Nice to see the recent sale on BAT, they may finally be moving in the right direction. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I did not find the Countach to emulate a kit car. How did the wheel flares turn the LP400S into a kit car? When pushed the Countach sticks to the pavement and I remain firmly placed in the seat.
Maybe i shud have been clearer - the added on flares to me feel a bit clunky and inconsistent w the original design whereas the boxer design is cleaner and more sophisticated (and now really coming into its age). That being said I think to most the boxer lacked the excess design of the 80’s super car countach - imo large reason for the price disparity. To me there is only one Ferrari tho bottom line.
Good day All, Just another data point ...1984 512BBi Chassis 47015 sold for $345K USD on BaT Cheers, Sam
