Boxer or 512 TR | FerrariChat

Boxer or 512 TR

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Robbin, Feb 13, 2005.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Robbin

    Robbin Karting

    Nov 25, 2004
    59
    NY
    I am very seriously considering two or three cars at the moment to be driven at two or three track events per year but more often on nice days in the CT country. I like the mid-12 cars and would appreciate any recent opinions on the differences in feel, maintenance, spirit of the 512 boxer bbi vs. testarossa 512.

    p.s. one of the boxers is viewable at:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6212&item=4526612325&rd=1

    and any thoughts on the car, apparent condition or dealership etc. would be much appreciated.
     
  2. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Very nice BB. I dont know anything about that dealer

    The 512TR is essentially a more modern BB or vice versa.

    So the 512TR is everything the BB is but more, better, faster, newer, more reliable, etc

    It comes down to choice of body style & they are both gorgeous so not much on downside

    My biggest worry RE the BB would be finding parts for that beast. FNA never imported the BB so its a grey market car. You have to make sure you have the DOT/EPA releases when you buy it. Also 1) its a no older car so parts are more bound to fail 2) its a BB so parts will be hard to come by & expensive

    Where do you live in NY ? I have an excellent mechanic you can speak to about the 2 cars.

    Bill Pollard in Gaylordsville CT. He services my 512TR & another customer has a BB

    Good luck
     
  3. Robbin

    Robbin Karting

    Nov 25, 2004
    59
    NY
    Thanks William, I agree this is a hard choice in part because both are so good in some ways there isn't much of a downside. However, as a first time potential buyer I am sure I won't know enough and so am doubly grateful for experienced guidance.

    I have an apartment in NY city and a house north of Danbury in CT. I know I have seen signs for Gaylordsville but I can't place it at the moment. I will look it up. I would be very interested in your mechanic's comments if you care to pm his details to me.
     
  4. atheyg

    atheyg Guest

    Drive them all, their is a big difference between the carbed Boxers and FI Boxers as well.

    You'll find many Boxer owners are fanatical about their cars and will never sell them that should tell you something also, I know I'll never sell mine as I would not know what to buy to replace it with.
     
  5. Robbin

    Robbin Karting

    Nov 25, 2004
    59
    NY
    The only problem is that however long a test drive it is still RELATIVELY short. Whereas owners such as you have lived past the excitement or heightened impressions of the moment to see what is satisfying over time. You certainly have owned some very interesting cars, what characteristics make the boxer a keeper in your experience--the immediacy of controls, the engine sounds, balance, speed, handling feel, the ferrari blend of force and grace?
     
  6. atheyg

    atheyg Guest


    Its really the complete package of the Boxer, the styling is clean and fresh today with no gimmicks,very beatiful from any angle and I also like the accessibility of the battery area and engine when the deck lids are open.
    The car also is made entirely by hand which makes it more special IMO and the man himself Mr. Ferrari had alot of input into its design which matters to me also, its just pure Ferrari, as Phil Hill said when driving it "It's like a Ferrari should drive."

    The engine sounds outrageous at high rpms with carbs like a late 60s F1 motor which is quite thrilling when driving it, it feels like a race car, rev the engine at a stop the whole car moves and you can feel the power and torque. The car feels compact and light for having a big 12 in it, I like the simplicity of the car also no elaborate electric gadgets to fail, the seating position and road view is great also and the car is very comfortable, Road & Track said driving a Boxer is like being in the front seat of a roller coaster and the ride can be just as thrilling.
     
  7. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    19,722
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    Robbin

    I keep my boxer in NW CT. There are several differences between a boxer and a testarossa, one of the biggest being the looks. On the open road the power feels very simlar with a well tuned boxer feeling faster to about 150. The boxer feels like you imagine that 170's can am racer to be, its all a bit raw and exotic, whereas a testaroossa is far more civilised.

    If weekend blasts are your thing then a boxer is the way to go, its not a car for valet parkers and the ac struggles to keep up with midsummer sun comming through the greenhouse windsheild. A boxer is also far more subtle and will not attraxt the attention of every citizen or cop ar its roll or blasts by. Its hard to slip through town in a testarossa.

    I have never had problems with parts, but the right mechanic is a necessity. After 20 or so yaers certain things need going over, apart from belts all hoses coolant and brake need replacing, but the same holds true for a testarossa. The biggest barrier seems to be boxer knowledge, if your close to bill pollard then there are no problems, he is a boxer artist.

    One last thing, Boxers have absolutly crap tires for the track, If youre planning on pushing it on the track then you will need some non metric wheels and more modern rubber.

    If you really want to play on the track hard then maybee a 355 or a 512tr is the way to go. For me the boxer is all about fun, its a great open road car, rt7 suits it perfectly, and can be an absolute blast on the track, it is sensitive to drive and requires tlc, but mine has run like a clock for 11 years.

    There are only issues drawbacks, you need someone who understands the car, its not a commuter type car, and tires are crap for the track.

    I would say unless you are going for a 512tr or m forget the testarossa, its softer bigger not really faster and astheticaly challenged. The tr and M though are in a different performance category and can look quite menacing in black.

    Let us know how it turns out and if youre in the neighbourhood lets try do sme runs over the summer.

    One last thing a boxer is definatly not a car to take anywhere near nyc, it would be tortuyre for you and the car, in a testarossa it can be done.
     
  8. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Sean, Robbin, where do you guys live in CT ? Sean I think we might have met once on the highway down near the Danbury mall, I was in the black 512TR, was that your grigio BB ?
    My parents live on Candlewood lake in Brookfield & I go visit in the summer.

    Robbin to get to Bill's shop you drive N on 7 its the next town N of New Milford about 15 minutes N of the bridge in NM

    I'll be up in CT in May, Maybe we can all take the Ferraris to DOWN THE SNATCH on the Lake :)
     
  9. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    19,722
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    William, yes I have the grigio BB, interesting that it was you that time we met on 84, I remember how your tr peeled down7 and took the mall offramp, it was the last time wife was in the car, so down the snatch is in..

    I built a house last year on lake lillinonah about 10mi east of candlewood and have been 'exploring' some of the roads. As soon as the sand and salt clears the boxer will be back in action, I am up there most weekends over the summer so we can have a few good drives.

    Recently bought an M3 so i can do some more track events "drive" through the winter and commute from ct to my office in weschester over the summer.

    Fortunatly I spend a good deal of time in South Africa where the roads are like the autobahn without traffic. Kinda kills me to hold back in the boxer, but if we can get the right group together, as you know there are some great roads in ct.
     
  10. Robbin

    Robbin Karting

    Nov 25, 2004
    59
    NY
    Thanks Jeff. That is a fantastic description.
     
  11. Robbin

    Robbin Karting

    Nov 25, 2004
    59
    NY
    Sean another great description, vivid and precise--this is very helpful. I also appreciate the NY city advice and will have to factor that in somewhat as on occassion I would like to bring the car to my building's garage but not very often.

    William and Sean our house is in New Fairfield (and I just returned from Danbury mall) so we should be close. If this works out I would love to get together this summer--but what is down the snatch?
     
  12. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    DOWN THE SNATCH is really DOWN THE HATCH :) Its a restaurant on the Brookfield side of Candlewood. Its the only restaurant on Candlewood that I know of where you can arrive by car or boat. Its usually packed

    Sean, I grew up on Lake Lillinoah, The roads were a lot more fun 20 years ago w less traffic

    Rte 7 N of New Milford up to Mass is awesome when there little traffic. There are few cops around there too.

    I used to carve 7 up in my 308.

    Heres a funny story about 7.

    I was at a friends auto stereo store in NM w another car & met this guy. We started talking & I told him I had a black 308 he says " So Your'e the one " He told me at a town meeting a Cop stood up saying they were looking for a black Ferrari that was tearing up Rte 7. :) LOL

    I told him those Cops couldnt catch a cold in a hospital & they still never caught me playing in any of the Ferraris
     
  13. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    19,722
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    Yeah i know down the hatch, got your meaning. rt7 copos is why you want a subtle approach quiet exhaust etc or a few cooperative freinds with motorola, but then there rt8 for speed.
     
  14. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Evidently you havent heard my 512TR w Tubis & no cats, Shes anything but quiet :)

    Which one is Rte 8 ? Cops are such a pain I just go to the track to really let her off her leash
     
  15. jmn

    jmn Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
    361
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    jmn
    I think the group has already captured the differences quite well, but here's my take on it. Essentially, a TR is all the impracticality of a Boxer (and more, considering the width) with none of the fun. To me, the TR and later 512 variants are just too civilized- Ferrari was going after a more mainstream market, and they achieved their goal, as MANY more TRs were sold than Boxers. I have a perfect Nero/Bordeaux '81 carb Boxer. It is an absolute blast to drive, with all the whoops and snarls of the old v-12 cars, but with more modern performance levels. The power and throttle response makes the carb cars more desirable to me, but even an injected Boxer is more fun than any TR, which feels alot like driving your living room around. Realistically, none of the cars we are talking about are quick by current standards, so you're buying for esthetics, not performance, and that's where the Boxer has it all over the TRs. The only possible reason I can imagine for buying a TR would be if you are really tall, as they do have more room than a Boxer. I have 10 other cars, including two other Ferraris, a Maserati, Mercedes AMG, etc and the Boxer is the last one I'd sell. I guess it and a '59 Alfa Spider Veloce I've had for 25+ years are my two favorites of the 150 or so cars I've owned. Boxers are just fantastic cars, and one of the all-time great buys at current price levels. How's that for owner enthusiasm?
     
  16. Doug.

    Doug. F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 16, 2004
    3,301
    Las Vegas, NV
    Essentially, the BB and 512TR are nearly the same car, except the TR is faster and more reliable. In all reality it comes down to which body style you like best. They're both gorgeous so there isn't really a downside there. The biggest thing you would have to worry about when buying a BB is finding parts for it. the BB is a grey market car because Ferrari North America never imported it to the US.

    Make sure you have the EPA/DOT releases when/if you buy the car. Some things you must concern yourself with are the BB is an older car so parts are bound to fail sometime, and parts can be extremely difficult to come by for the BB, and are very expensive. Good luck with whichever car you get, and just make sure to drive her. ;)
     
  17. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    #17 WILLIAM H, Feb 13, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I dont think I agree with you on this LOL
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    19,722
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    Rt8 runs from waterbury to torrington two lanes both directions hardly any exits, a great place to really let the horses run and run. Think autobahn or autostrada, long flowind bends with plenty of forward view for the straights, not twisty track, the kind of place those big flat twelves werte designed for.
    Rt 7 is a 3rd gear road rt8 is a 4th and fith gear road, know what I mean.

    Have never been to watkins glenn but I hear that is also like a fast road.
     
  19. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    35,532
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Now I remember, I have a place up in Goshen. Never thought of ripping through Rt 8, Ive seen a few cops there.

    Of course there is the super 7 connector AKA the Drag Strip which is conveniently only a few miles from the NY border ;)
     
  20. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    19,722
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    i guess its looking like a fast summer
     
  21. Robbin

    Robbin Karting

    Nov 25, 2004
    59
    NY
    Very interesting. I have consistently heard similar things from boxer owners who own more modern/faster cars--the boxer would be one of the last to go--perhaps the ultimate tribute.

    Now for the 64k questions:

    for a 512bbi with strong cosmetics, good compression/leakdown results, documented services and between 10 and 20 thousand miles what is a good price range?

    similarly for a 512tr with between 15 and 25 thousand miles with good results, cosmetics and service history what is a fair price range?

    Anyone?
     
  22. henryk

    henryk Formula Junior

    Dec 9, 2003
    479
    Door County, WI
    I have both: an 83 Boxer (BBi), and an 88.5 TR.

    I live in a beautiful cruising county, in WI........Door County!!!!!!!!!! I also have family in Chicago.

    When I go to Chicago, I use the TR..........more relaxing, and easier to drive. When I cruise in Door County, I use the Boxer........great for short cruising trips.

    If I where to sell one, it would be the TR.

    BTW: I have the best Ferrari mechanic, in WI...........ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  23. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    19,722
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    There are good boxers and great boxers. A great boxer will have had a full engine out service within the last 5 years including distributor and water pump. Brake and coolant hoses will have been done in 10 years or less and shocks will have done too. To do the above work figure 10-15k.

    A TR is getting on 10 years or more so will need the same bits in its history and will probably cost a little more to have done.

    Both of these cars will have to have this stuff done if your playing at the track or just want it to drive properly. This is the price if youre starting with a good car to begin with.


    Figure 70-75 for a good boxer needing the work and 80-90k for a great entusiast owned up to date car depending on the bits.

    On top of all this if the tires are old they will need replacing.

    I dont know tr prices but they seem above 100k maybee more for a good one.

    After the work is done you will have a mechanicaly sound reliable car which with regular maintanace will drive well for at least 5 years or so when the next belt change engine out is due. This rule holds for almost every ferrari from the mid 70's on, although some of the newer cars need this service every 3 years. Figure to spend at least $700 on a basic year and maybe $2000+ every other year for full fluid changes etc, with that 10k nut to crack every 5-8years.

    On the other habd besides maintance the cars are very robust, something that does not appear to be the case with 355's and 456's.

    Spend well and you'll enjoy the car for many years. Buy a cheapo boxer or testarossa and it will cost you in repairs more than a good cost to buy to put right. Have the wrong person work on either car, and as some of the threads will attest you will spend 15k twice. Dont mean to be alarmist but these are the cold hard facts. There are many ferraris out there that are solid basic cars that have not been kept up, because the owners cant tell the difference or they wern't driven, that have low mileage but need the work done. Basicaly you have components that need refreshing erey 5 years and others at ten years, so every 5 years its a single big bill and every ten years its two bigish bills.

    If the Boxer youre looking at is fully up to date and you buy it in the low 80's its a good deal. Even then youre going to be spending something in the first yeaR TO PUT THE LITTLE THINGS RIGHT. As much as I would like to have a neighbour with a Boxer if youre taking the car into NYC best get a testarossa.
     
  24. Robbin

    Robbin Karting

    Nov 25, 2004
    59
    NY
    Sean I very much am interested in those details and appreciate the price recommendation. I have requested now a couple of times from one dealer that I receive the per cylinder leakdown results instead of the generic all were at least 90%. The answwer sounds ok but not stellar if all are that the outer edge and also there is not description of rings vs. valves for the leakage. Cylinder compressions were within 10% of each other but a couple were at the lower end of the range and I would like to compare leakdown results in those particular cylinders as well as establish a baseline for future reference. Am I being too picky?
     
  25. SEAL2CC

    SEAL2CC Formula Junior

    Jan 19, 2005
    352
    Auction site shows "deposit received" and car may be sold but auction continuing in case it falls thru...is that you??
     

Share This Page