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Boxers are undervalued

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by ross, Dec 12, 2021.

  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    I hadn't read before that Bruce Meyer had a 250 GTO. Which one was it?
     
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  3. wlanast

    wlanast Formula 3
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    Jan 9, 2007
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    Forgive my poor memory, it was the chance to trade his 275 straight across for a GTO in 1970 See the video at 3:20 and hear the story.
     
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  4. John B

    John B Formula 3

    May 27, 2003
    1,557
    NJ
    Perhaps the question should be rephrased from "Are Boxers undervalued?" to "Do Boxers give the best driving and ownership experience for the money?" The point being not to buy the car as a financial trade, but rather as a car to drive, own, and enjoy. Anyways, I think the answer to both questions is yes!
     
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  5. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    interestingly, the scotttsdale auctions have at least 2 512bbi's coming up, and the guide prices are about $100k apart.
    i guess there is the condition aspect - which we cannot tell on line. otherwise they are quite similar.......
     
  6. Carl A

    Carl A Formula Junior
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    Feb 11, 2021
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    I've been looking at the UK market quite closely recently and it's the same, there is a wild variation in prices. The more commanding cars have had major rebuild work done already, there is imo also a 'premium for buying from a well known trader' at play.
     
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  8. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    definitely.
    i am waiting for the day when all the bb's with needs have been overhauled, and we are dealing with mostly refreshed cars.
    meanwhile, the price range is anywhere from $150-400k depending on all the factors.
    i guess this is normal, but tiring....
     
  9. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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  10. Carl A

    Carl A Formula Junior
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    Wow, that's mint
     
  11. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Oops... I meant to say that I thought the fees were 15%, not 5% as I posted.

    My apologies.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  13. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    RM emailed a few no-sale cars and this was one of them so it traded off the block but still was negotiated quickly after the sale from the looks of it.
     
  14. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    what please is " A rare “Ermenegildo Zegna” edition 512 BBi " ???
    can some enlighten me please?
     
  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    in this link I still not can get much more info what should be rare/special at an ermenegildo zegna edition and the ebay link not exist anymore
     
  16. TerryG!

    TerryG! Karting

    Feb 12, 2017
    134
    Central UK
    I’ve not found much more info either. The ‘designer interior’ with Zegna wool cloth inserts seems to be the focus.
    Seems to me a lot like later BMC/Leyland Minis, styled by Mary Quant and Paul Smith in attempts to win over customers.
     
  17. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Dec 19, 2004
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    The 512 BB is the last analog Ferrari. I hope to have the pleasure of owning one in the future. The 512 BBi is a close second to that title and I wouldn't pass on one given a chance.

    I regret going with a 550 instead of a BB after I sold my Daytona, which of course is my greatest regret of all.
     
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  18. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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  19. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    so this means that the seats are not complete leather?
     
  20. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    They are a combination of wool and leather. I posted pics of my car so you can see the seats.
     
  21. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    and those cars are called then ermenegildo zegna?
     
  22. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    #95 sherpa23, Jan 31, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2022
    No. It’s called a Ferrari 512BBi. The interior is referred to as the Ermenegildo Zegna interior as that’s who made the wool option for the interior.

    There are supposedly 27 cars with that option so it’s rare.

    It’s just like if you have a 360 with a sunroof. Only a handful of cars got the sunroof. They’re still a Ferrari 360 but they’re referred to as sunroof cars. The whole car isn’t called a sunroof.
     
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  23. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    thank you for the explanation :)
    never had knowledge before from such an edition
     
  24. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    People call it an “edition” like “Ermenegildo Zegna Edition Ferrari 512BBi” or “special edition” or something like that but I don’t think that’s quite right. Lots of times you will see auction houses refer to it as “rare Ermenegildo Zegna edition” but I don’t know how that’s true as I’ve seen them as early as late 1982 cars to 1984 cars like mine. If it were a special edition, wouldn’t they have made them together?

    From what I have uncovered, it was simply a pretty rare option albeit available in a few colors. It looks like it was only specified a handful of times (27 is the most quoted number but I have seen 18 and 29 also).

    Don’t me wrong - it’s a very cool option and the interior is stunning. I can understand that it’s very desirable and a lot of people would seek out one with that interior. However, that still doesn’t make it a special edition like how I’ve seen the auction houses refer to it sometimes.

    Hope that helps.
     
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  25. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    May 27, 2004
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    Mine has the leather seats but the wool door inserts and headliner.

    Agreed, its the last homebuilt analog f-car, the last Enzo developed car, well actually his nephew Luca got the job if finalizing it.
    In any event its drives like all the classic Ferraris except its mid engine so can turn and work on modern roads in a way the earlier ones cant, in some ways its more raw and less comfy than the earlier car's. Without getting into modern political correctness its a mans car.
    The best critique I heard of the Bb was that it didn't know what it wanted to be so fell between two stools trying to be Gt and civilized for the road racer in one. The Tr was a transitional car went for Gt and the 550 became modern cars. 355s are somewhere in between.
    308s are great too, but they have trouble moving out their own shadow.

    the best part of a BB is they can be what the brits call sympathetically updated. ie the core experience remains intact, its no resto mod. Pistons and cams wake these babies up and move the experience closer to the on cam wave of power that something like a Daytona with LM cams had. the stock brake are really ample for the road and something like ferodo 2500 pads will give you all the stopping power you need. The Newman diff carrier solves the weak link, 17 in wheels allow modern rubber which the car always should have had, this improves ride and functionally eliminates the snap oversteer endemic to TRXs, plus the Ac can be made to work.

    Were just one great classic mag review of a redone car away from the car being recognized.

    Shepra and a few others now have really nicely redone car, which shows that those with the means and the taste are buying now.
     
  26. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    The auction catalogs often have a few paragraphs about the car. Not always a great detailed description but sometimes enough to read between the lines a little. A couple of years ago Marcel and I were looking at the results for 2 330 Spiders we knew. One had a mention of accident damage in its history with no details. (I had the details, it was a big bad accident). Otherwise they were about equal by description. Don't recall catalog price but selling was $300.000 different.
     
  27. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    28,967
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    I have seen those since the 80's when they were new and never heard that term until a couple of weeks ago. Just a car salesman trying to separate his car from the heard.

    Not bad with the black fabric, not so much with the red. When it developed the inevitable patina it looked dingy. When the leather wears some it just looked like its been enjoyed.

    Same fabric used in 328 interior trim.
     
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