Boxers vs Daytonas

A friend of mine bought a 512BB off one of the most prolific Ferrari buyers in the 70ies and 80ies in South Africa, and a founding member of the SEFAC (the South African Ferrari Club) - his name unfortunately escapes me at the moment. He said that he exchanged his Daytona for a Boxer in an instant back in the '70ies and proclaimed "the Daytona is half the car". I think he was exaggerating.

I have not driven a Daytona myself yet but I feel I have got a fair idea of what it should drive like if I take the many opinions I've read and put them into context of my own experiences in the various Boxers (365BB, 512BB, and 512BBi) and the 330GTC.

Let us just say that I would not be surprised if the Boxer is indeed a better car to drive, purely technically speaking. How much better I cannot say. I suspect very much that it would also be down to what you expect of a drive. Let me quantify it. I think a Boxer:

1. Has better and more direct steering
2. Has better roadholding and higher possible corner speeds.

I think a Daytona:

1. Is much more practical
2. Is much more benign over the limit (understatement!). In short - a Boxer can go through a corner theoretically faster but in the Daytona you'd feel less worried about it and I don't think the difference will be large at all. Especially on a 365BB with the 215 tyres. As Boxers get younger, the differences are greater.

Horsepower-wise, the cars basically have the same output (I think Enzo's lies were a bit more truthful on the Daytona than on the Boxer, so they should have very similar outputs). Weightwise, the cars are also remarkably similar with a slight advantage to the Boxer.

I think the experiences related to your driver have a lot to do with the steering, if on a twisty road I think there is less work to be done in a Boxer.

But I stand to be corrected and it will be very interesting to read people's informed opinions.


Onno

 

have not driven a Daytona either but the Boxer was the car i always dreamt of owning and other than the ever widening gap in values i have no regrets after 5 years of ownership.
unlike some old cars the BB still feels like a true supercar.

 

A friend of mine had both a Daytona and a 365 Boxer at the same time and said that the Boxer was the faster car. Someone else I know had a 365 Boxer after a Daytona who also said the Boxer was the faster car. To my eyes the Boxer is the most beautiful road Ferrari ever made.

 

I dont think it makes a difference.. Boxer and Dayotona owners both do the same thing with their cars... Nothing.. The majority dont drive the cars, at this point its eye candy.. Take your pick.. lol..

R

ps.. sorry us TR guys have to take a shot whenever we can. Boxer owners are a bunch of b*tches.. lol.. Let the ripping begin.. lol..

 

On the power front I have had my boxer in a roll on from 60 mph run with a daytona. the two cars were pretty much neck and neck till about 130 when we had to brake for a corner. The only differences were the shift points which were slightly different and would put one car or the other half a length ahead. Once it came time to slow for the corner I could brake later and was in a different league going through the bends, and that was in the days when I was still on TRX's/

Since then with an exhaust change and better tuning my boxer is definatly quicker than it was, and with modern rubber completly different through the bends. Of course I cannot say what state of tune the Daytona was in, but it was a car that had been owned and driven by the same person from new so I assume he had it reasonably dialed in.

My sense is that above 100MPH on a open road a daytona is going to feel less nervous and be more comfortable, the daytona motor probably also sounds better being in front.

A boxer always requires attention to the wheel more so as the speed increases, so its a less relaxing drive on the open road. I also hear that below 80+mph a daytona feels heavy like a truck, its a continent crusher.

In todays road enviroment its hard to run above 100 mph for too long, so a boxer is probably more rewarding to drive and more useable for a mountain weekend blast. Neither though is useable in the modern sense of being easy and as tractable as any other car..

But give me a daytona with a higher compression motor and cams(450BHP) on an open road out west and a short time to get from AtoB I bet it would be an epic drive hard to repeat in any car, and you would be far less tired out than in a boxer. Put me in a boxer tuned to the nuts running on modern rubber with some good brake pads, on say colorado mountain roads or even on the blue ridege parkway and there is pretty much nothing else that would be as fun. Problem is these roads are hard to find in a condition that allows you to freely run, but in todays worls the epic drive will be easier to find int he boxer.

Of corse if you live in South Africa every type of road is available and lightly trafficked and pratroled on a sunday morning. Out there they still drive cars as other did in the 60's.

I had a countach there for a while, and it was definatly and enviroment where the speed limitation was the limitation of the car, or how fast it could cope with a bend. Cops, traffic and surface condition were really no impediment. Also in a semi arid country there are not a lot of trees to block the view round bends. It was pretty beserk on a motorcycle too.

BTW you can easily cruise a Volvo 850 turbo at 250KMH for 45mins or more, and its very stable and comfortable at that speed, plus the turbo is on permemnat boost above 230.

 

Daytona is a really thrilling car to drive. In a straight line it is like a Saturn V rocket and sounds really cool hitting redline in every gear while watching everything disappear in the rear view mirror.



A BB on the other hand does a lot more that just go straight really well.

 

Funny I have not seen a TR driven in anger in many years. The only two times I did was once when i was a Kid and someone lent me his Tr, and the other time was finding William H on the road outside Danbury and we both wnet for it.

At club events the Tr guys just like to cruise midpack. I guess they are comfortable and the Ac works great. Its also a heavier bigger car than a boxer so lacking in that delicasy, but the 512 TR and M motor is a gem.

 

I have a 365 Boxer and this video is entertaining and enlightening.

This video is long and old. A really interesting, well shot 70's piece on Daytonas, worth a watch.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_UAxTIbwi8]Ferrari 365 GTB4 Daytona - YouTube[/ame]

 

Check out the "Smokey & the Bandit" burnout / donut at 26:10 -You don't see that every day!

 

I was never really taken with Daytona's, except for that one time I saw a red one rip down an empty Park Avenue in Manhattan around 3:00 am circa 1983. I still remember the whail of it's exhaust echoing off the buildings as it screamed through the gears. Just spectacular! Who was that? I bet someone here has a good idea.

Boxers on the other hand, I've always loved, but I always managed to buy something else instead. Miura, Dino, GTC... Well, that has come to an end, I finally got my Boxer last month. I can't wait for the weather to clear!

 

Congrats! Was this on another thread? If so, I missed it.

I always loved the Daytona, but it was a little 'old' by the time Ferrari came into my world. The Boxer is the one that did it.

I drove a Ghibli 4.9 SS and many said it was a 'half priced Daytona' or whatever it was during the day (around 1988 or so). I remember thinking about the heavy steering and mile long hood - though kinda cool - felt and seemed dated, with handling to match.

My first Boxer experience was everything but that. Light steering, perched straight over the front like almost no hood at all, and though not 'flickable', offered transient handling that was sublime by comparison.

 

I have driven a Daytona, and I own a 365GT 2+2 (which drives more like the Daytona than most Daytona owners would like to admit). The Boxer simply feels much more modern than the Daytona. From a purely driving point of view, I think there is no comparison-- the Boxer is much better.

The Daytona has other advantages, though, like an actual trunk, and is probably a better car for all around use.

 

i test drove a boxer, not impressed. strange pedal location, tight, dark cramped interior. tacky switch gear.
when i sat in the daytona, i knew it was the choice of the two. interior is a design master piece. old world ferrari style.
ed

 

I feel that they are two very different cars. One is the final culmination of an old school design, a beautiful final experiment in styling and excellence in engineering. Driving one is something that won't soon be forgotten, correction, never forgotten. The sound, the smell, the country side a blurr in the mirrors. It is proof that there really is such a thing as a time machine. Any body who has experienced a spirited drive through a twisty rural environment can vouch for what I am saying.

A boxer on the other hand was a big step in a completely different direction. A new direction and engineering ideas that were a bold statement. Such as combining the engine, transmission, and dif in one unit. A rear engine flat twelve previously only seen in race cars turned into an autobahn cruiser. Still, an awesome experience to drive one and again, the sound, the smell, the drive is something you never forget.

I like to think of it as a passing of the torch, the reigning champion giving his blessings to the young newcomer full of promise yet to prove his worth.

 

john,

i am excited that you pulled the trigger on a boxer as i think your buying into the boxer family says a lot. i would suspect that those who know of your race cars would think this a natural road going ferrari for your collection. i also think you as an owner may even wake up the market a bit.

i've never driven an m8 but have driven a good many capable race cars. driving the boxer and the process in doing so has me looking for my nomex and old bell xfm-1 at times

i hope you enjoy ownership and i hope you write of your impressions early and often!!!

pcb

 

I really like the Boxer interior and layout, even the pedals are fine once you get used to them. The Daytona interior and gauge package is much more refined but IMO, the Boxer is much more comfortable to drive than the Daytona from a drivers position point of view. The Daytona demands the scoot down in your seat driving position, which can get somewhat uncomfortable if you try too hard to sit up straight.

Driving? Daytona and Boxer sound great, shift great and have plenty of power. But I wouldn't want to be 30 MPH over the speed limit, in the wet, on a country road, going around a bend in either of them. And if you downshift the Boxer and miss a gear in the wet (5th to 2nd) you better have your personal affairs in order. The Daytona has heavy (heavy) steering at parking speeds but once all systems are up to temp and the car gets past 35 MPH, the steering lightens up and is very nimble but requires constant inputs if you're working the car hard.

There is something magical about those carburetor stacks sticking straight up in the air and the sound of the 180 degree V 12 tuned just right that makes a Boxer really special. The cars get better as you use them, which should be as often as possible weather permitting. The Boxer costs you $5.00 per day (year around) in maintenance whether the car is running or not. Daytona seems less maintenance intensive but a serious issue is going to set you back a fair amount.

Boxers are also mysterious regarding what is original/correct/painted/unpainted and what year parts changed. As far as the carbureted versions are concerned, there are some interesting differences ranging from 1973-1981. I don't even want to get into it on this thread but if I had access to an actual time machine, it would be just as interesting to be at the end of the Boxer assembly line in 1977 as it would be to have witnessed the signing of the Declaration of Independence. There isn't as much drama with a Daytona but man they are gorgeous.

Lastly, according to this advertisement, the Boxer is worth more
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Hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I was taking your comments seriously until you described the interior as "dark". Unless you were driving it on the dark side of the moon, there isn't a windscreen made that lets in more light... unfortunately, lol!

Old world definitely describes the Daytona interior, the Boxer is following close behind with a only a slightly updated version. Both understated Ferrari

Daytona's are wonderful cars, I am a big fan. But there is no question the similarities of wonderful leather, analog interior controls, and wonderful sounds end when compared to the very different driving dynamics, practicality in the everyday world, and ease (or lack) of entry/egress.
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Kinda dark in there. Could have used a better flash on that camera

 

I have now driven my Boxer for the last seven days straight. What a great fun car. My RS6 hasn't been out of the garage for a week.

Melbourne weather has been perfect Boxer friendly all month. Get out and drive your cars... They love it.

S

 

Isn't this thread a bit like asking if you would rather date Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer? They're different but I doubt many men would turn down either of them.

I love my Daytona and certainly wouldn't sell it to buy a Boxer, but one day I would love to have a 512BB in the garage next to it.

 

Pete,
I'll be happy to share my opinions of my first drive in my Boxer. For now she's sitting in the race shop in PA waiting for the snow to melt and roads to clear. A friend with a BBi and I plan to get together in the spring for a nice drive & back to back comparison of carb vs injected Boxers, I really look forward to that. That's a good one about me waking the Boxer market up, Steve McQueen I am not!

 

if i were abetting man...long dollar would say that one day you will have the two as garage mates!!

pcb

 

a rare V12?

 

John, give me some advance notice of the get together with your friend and we might be able to arrange our own version of Tom Yang's Boxer comparison in "Forza". Your 512 BB, your friend's 512 BBi, and my 365 BB should make for a memorable afternoon for the three of us.