Bradan Mondial T major service.

I think I may have found your problem - your car is reacting to the badges someone put on her! (Just trying to add a little gallows humor, I really feel your pain).

 

If I posted that Braden working on a Ferrari is akin to a certain administration working on the economy, could we move this to P&R? (More gallows humor- must be something I drank last night)

 

I've had the chance to read this thread in it's entirety- Whew!

Came to my attention because I am in the midst of having Bradan do paint and some mechanical work on my 75 308GT4.

On this one- I have no dog in this fight- But as a Serial Ferrari owner let me add a few thoughts.

Joe Zaff- I've admired your staunch support of the Mondials- some of your impassioned prose have been among the best reads on Fchat- But you gotta cool it brother... You don't know the owner, you don't know the car, and you do not know the shop in question here. As an attorney you should know what happens when you piece together second hand information to draw a conclusion. EVERY SINGLE skilled Ferrari mechanic on the planet has had this kind of stuff happen.

Remember Joe- You DO NOT own a Mondial T- very, very different beast from the 3.2.. ask ANY shop. I'm not sure what other Ferraris you've owned in the past, but if you've had several then you HAVE TO know that sh*t happens with these cars...It just does.

Now Mondial T owners- Don't get pissed- but I've been in and around many, many well known Ferrari shops- and the T's and 348s electrical gremlins just seem to confound many experienced mechanics. My local guy has had one in the shops for three months now with some similar issues as the car in question here, and I can just imagine the money the owner has thrown at it.

More than anything this tale reminds me that a good local mechanic is a blessing. Having a nearly 25 year old car "fixed" a thousand miles from home is not a fix. older Ferraris and this era of ferrari in particular defy logic sometimes. ALL of us who have owned Ferraris for some time have had similar experiences- Paid a ton to do the correct fix only to have the car do something even worse the following week. If the shop in question is 18 miles away- a $60 flatbed ride gets you sorted- If the shop is a thousand miles away, you take it to a new guy who tells you what clowns the first guy was. I've lived this exact scenario twice. If the owner lived in Hicksville this would have been sorted months ago cause Dan would have showed up at his house with a trailer- dragged the car back to the shop and invested thousands of dollars of labor for free to sort it out- I can't speak for the depth of knowledge in that shop but I can speak for their commitment to the customer. Cause I am one. But call them on the phone- they won't bite- and discuss any project with them- they know what they're doing. If I had a really weird problem that nobody could diagnose I would not chose Bradan- I'd chose a shop with one old guy who has seen it all- and pay for that experience. Nothing is free boys. But a clutch?? Daves Connector Kit? A Major? Seriously?? Have you worked on your cars yet? This is not the Saturn V Booster Rocket we're talking about- just a car.

Once you've lived through four or five of these you do one of two things- You learn to diagnose the problem yourself and then either fix it or tell the shop EXACTLY what to replace, or you tell the shop to replace EVERYTHING. On my GT4 I'm doing steering rack, water pump, hoses, seals, wheel bearings- everything I can think of that has gone bad no my other cars- Just because. NO mechanic on the planet would recommend that much prophylactic replacement- But now I know better. I did the carbs and distributors and all that myself- cause it's many, many hours and it makes me happy to make a Ferrari work.

Just the other day I was having a conversation with a fellow Fcar owner- and when I told him of the shop I used in the Boston area he told me a HORROR story of how bad they were- He took the car in for a simple brake job (The car had no brakes) and they wound up charging him way too much cause they found the calipers had rotted seals and the brake lines were corroded and the Master Cylinder was leaking and all the usual 25 year old Ferrari maladies. "I'll never use them again". So of course the car got fixed- five years later it's perfect- but the owner did not want to pay a lot of money to do it right. How can a mechanic know which direction to head? A Mondial owner ain't a Daytona owner.

Look- for all I know Bradan screwed this up royally...But the stuff they did is SIMPLE stuff... and what they're good at is being meticulous. Obviously a few wrong decisions were made here- and then some other stuff broke. Perfect condition TO bearing get reused all the time- especially on very low mileage cars...Happens.

One of my cars has been back to my guy FIVE times for the one specific problem- and this shop has more experience than anyone on the planet- They've replaced every expensive thing they can think of, and we're still not quite there. Happens.

Mondial Ts and 348's are a challenge to sort and get reliable- sorry but they are. Once sorted they are really wonderful cars. I'd take a T over a 3.2 any day of the week, with the knowledge that my purchase price was just the down payment on the Ferrari experience.

Good luck with the T- it's a gorgeous car!

 

in all fairness to Braden, if you look at the earlier posts, the car had electrical issues from the beginning before they cracked it open.

 

That is a lot of input. Thanks for that.

Sorry - they are not. These are actually pretty simple cars.

Things happen like this with every brand or version. Its not a Ferrari issue, its a car issue.

 

I agree completely.

IMHO

Joe

 

Hi Jay of "full garage",

Just a moment to ask you to look at your statement, "A Mondial owner ain't a Daytona owner." It implies one of two things: either the Mondial doesn't deserve the same amount of (freedom) to spend the dollars required to make her perfect ---------- or the Mondial owner simply doesn't have that required amount the (assuming) Daytona owner has. Your example of the guy with the expensive brake job, got what he paid for, since his brakes were ****. He simply didn't want to pay the "going price". I doubt he owns a Daytona

There are Mondial owners here that also own successful businesses, have multi car collections and more. They can and will pay whatever it takes, to keep their beloved car running properly.

Cheers, Hank

 

Heres the thing...

I'm not a finger pointer, its not my nature, i'm looking for solutions for my problematic car, not accusations.

I purchased this Mondial because it was the very best example of all the others i investigated. It needed the least amount of service:

A Major
A clutch
A steering rack
A switch and a solenoid to operate the engine hatch.

It took 5 months to service my car. I replaced everything that it needed as well as a rebuilt fusebox to prevent any other electrical gremlins as well as a GCK to make it all work better than new. I've had the car 1 month.

It now needs:

A Major (cam seal leaking)
A clutch (TOB serviced)
A switch and a solenoid to operate the engine hatch

Plus - it now needs a new wiring harness because the 'new' switch melted the harness.

What did i get for the time and the $$$$$$ spent? I'm basically worse than i started.

Now, i'm not looking to lay this at the feet of Dan @ Bradan. Dan is a very nice guy, i believe he is genuinely very concerned about my situation and has offered to have my car shipped back for a re-do on the Major, all at his expense. His reputation is at stake and as a business owner myself, I would like to insulate him as much as possible, dealing behind the scenes.

BUT, maybe, just maybe, the Mondial is not their cup of tea. At this point, i want to send it to someone who specializes in this car, i have one in mind, and I will ask Bradan, to share in the cost as much as he is willing. What ever that is, i'll take it from there and make this car right!

I'll post the outcome and move on with a new thread at possibly a new shop, more tailored to my specific issues.

 

I have read your thread and feel for you as there is nothing more frustrating than getting a new toy, paying $$$ for service, and have it break on the way home. At the same time your comments about the Mondial being different that Bradan might not be able to sort surprises me as you did extensive homework about the model before buying. While have not owned a mondial T - just 2 348s - I spent tons of time on the 348/355 forum reading about all the headaches and solutions for a car that is extremely finicky. Fix one thing and there is cascading effect, especially with the electricals and while fusebox is the right thing to do, it probably revealed other downstream issues - as a DYIer it is manageable (hence the Brotherhood), however; if you take it to a shop it will eat you alive $$$wise and frustrate the h3ll out of you. Trying to manage this remote can only be problematic and end in finger pointing.

As for driving a 20+ yo Ferrari across multiple states, that takes serious brass ones when you are not familiar with the car - I shipped my 2004 because I was concerned about potential problems even though I had been waiting over 3 months for service and it had new belts, clutch, tires, wiring harness and had spent another 2 weeks at the Ferrari dealer in San Diego who gave it clean bill of health. Guess what, after receiving is from the transporter and driving it about 150 miles it developed a problem. Was it related to the service...probably not, but I am glad I didn't have to deal with that on the side of the road out in BF nowhere. People say Ferrari have personalities just like people... would you go on a two day road trip with a blind date? It's definitely a great way to get to know a person/car, warts and all!!

I respect Bradan for the offer to fix some of the items, however; this will not change the fact problem that you own a 20+ italian car and things will continue to break and frustrate you. Finding a local person that can troubleshoot will certainly be cheaper on the long run and allow you to explain and show what is wrong with the car.

 

This pretty much sums up owning any older Ferrari...Looking for a perfect, trouble free car and service experience? No Ferrari or shop can accomplish this every time. 30+ years dealing with these cars reminds me daily why my other car is either Japanese or German...Then again, when they're as old as some of the Ferrari's I service, perhaps they too will be royal service pains that suck every last dollar out of me...

To the OP; You picked a great shop. Why not let them correct whatever situation needs attention privately, rather than attempt to denounce them publicly. I fail to see how this benefits anyone...

 

The OP - is the shop And Ted is doing anything but denouncing them.

 

..."This thread continues to attack us" Attack you? You started this thread, Bradan. I don't know you personally, but this is what I do know;

Ted entrusted you with his Ferrari.
You had the car for three months.
Ted paid you over fifteen thousand dollars for your service.

Two days after he took delivery of his Ferrari this happened;

clutch went bad
5-8 slow down lights cam on
electronics went bad
cam-seals started leaking oil
sylinoid caught fire


Now I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but from a casual observer.... YOU FAILED!

Call it "slander" or stick by "it's a 20+ year old Ferrari" exscuse. Bottom line is this, Ted paid you to preform a service. He held up his end of the bargain. Question is... will you?

IMHO

Joe

 

Sounds pretty clear to me they are wiling to hold their end up. What more could you possibly ask for?

Erik

 

'got that right. The Saturn V was cheaper to maintain.

Dave

 

Good point.

Hey Ted, if you don't already hang out in the 348 section you might find some solace in ernie's saga. Here's a good one....

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=316399

dave

 

One simple question. Is ted's car black or red? I thought it was black until Braden posted a red car....

Ace

 

I'm not quite sure either, why Bradan posted pics of a red 348TS. Ted's car is a Mondial - and it is indeed, black.

Cheers,

 

I'm pretty sure it's a direct point made to JoeZaff - I assume specifically because of this:

What Daniel is showing with the 348 is that the Gold Kit (which is an engine kit for the T) could not possibly cause issues with the wipers and lights as they function when the engine (and ECU) are removed from the car. Since he didn't have Ted's car in front of him, he can show a similar setup.

--

On a side note, I have gotten a pretty few nasty emails from this thread - basically accusing me of being part of Bradan. Let me make this perfectly clear, I have zero stake in anything Bradan does -

That being said, I would call Daniel out in a heartbeat if he told Ted that he wouldn't look at the car and fix it (towing it back and forth on his own dime) - but that is not the case.

I know for a fact that my Mondial had no major electrical issues when brought to Bradan (except slow windows) and after the replacement of the Fuse box (my suggestion) I still have no electrical issues. On a car that had electrical issues prior to the fuse box install - It's very possible that the issue still remains somewhere in the wiring throughout the car.

I feel bad about this situation as well, as Ted and I had several conversations prior to his purchase when he asked me several questions about Daniel and Bradan which I was happy to answer. I'm sure part of his decision was based on these conversations and that doesn't sit well with me since he's going through these issues.

Erik

 

Where do I sign up for this program?!!! I want it and I want it NOW! Heck, I want it retroactive! Talk about making my life simple....

There are a number of fairly simple, possible explinations for the problems experienced and not all of them are nearly as terrible as many think. I think we should allow Ted and Dan to sort the Wheat from the Chaff. It isnt that mistakes cant happen, its how mistakes are dealt with that count.

When it comes to a situation like the TOB..... I support the direction Dan took and do it daily myself. Shotgun repairs are now becoming all too common and no good can come from this type of repair procedure. FBB had a tag line, Life is Painless for the Brainless. Shotgun repairs are for those that cant reason logic or have no background from which to draw conclusions. They are also a highly profitable technique with a high degree of CYA. Hmmmm....... now that I write that.......

 

Braden,

I have never said that Ted's windshield wiper problems,etc, were the result of your ECK install. My comments suggested that you have done significant electrical work on the car, including but not limited to the ECK install and fusebox and now the electrical systems as Ted indicated, are failing one by one. In case my position was not clear---My concern is that you may not have the ferrari specific training or expertise to be troubleshooting electrical problems on an old Ferrari Mondial and that this COULD be a contributing factor to the problems he has been having or, at best, certainly not a cure. I have voiced similar concerns regarding your decision not to replace the throwout bearing during the clutch replacement, or the fact that the car has some sort of oil leak after you performed the major. I have NEVER made a definitive statement as to the cause of the problems, nor could I, with the information available.



ALL OF THIS BEING SAID, I sincerely appreciate all that you are doing and have done since his car has left your shop. You have thus far demonstrated excellent customer service and are standing by your workmanship.

I think all of us would like nothing more than for this to have a happy ending.

 

I beg to differ.

http://www.imakenews.com/conautosports/e_article002075559.cfm?x=bjJJ7N3,b9BHC5RD,w


Joe

 

+1. I think this thread needs to be closed.

 

I agree that Braden are standing by their workmanship, there is not much more you can ask for at this point. Presently, this thread is not very favorable to them. However, they have an opportunity to end this thing on a high note. Conversely, if this thread is closed and things go wrong, someone will only open up another thread--which will likely be very unfavorable. Than you would have two threads--both unflattering and a newbie searching for them two years from now, may not appreciate that the threads are even related. I think they deserve an opportunity to demonstrate their customer service, whatever form that may take.

Right now they are trying to do the right thing. They started this thread, lets let them finish it.