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Brain Teaser

Discussion in '308/328' started by David Lind, Nov 2, 2009.

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  1. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    My 1988 1/2 Mondial 3.2 wouldn't start the other night. It would turn over fine, but no hint of combustion. After sitting for 3 hours, still turned over but wouldn't start. While I wasn't churning it over for long periods of time, there was no smell of gas at the exhaust pipes. I sprayed in a little starting fluid, and it started and ran fine. It has started 30 times since then and run well w/o incident.

    So ... if you have fuel, air, and spark, you will get combustion. The element I introduced (fuel/ether) has not been introduced in the last 30 (successful) starts, but it still works. Any ideas? Is it possible that a 21 year old fuel pump w/ 80,000 miles on it can work sporadically and this is the source of my problem? I always thought electric fuel pumps either worked or didn't and wouldn't "heal themselves".
     
  2. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    One other element ... the fuel filter was changed about 700 miles ago.
     
  3. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2003
    2,848
    Newport Beach Ca.
    Full Name:
    John Dixon
    Years ago my fuel pump stopped working, I used the universal adjustment tool (hammer) on it and it worked sometimes. Any time it didn't work, I would hit it and it then worked fine. I had forgotten all about it as it has been working fine for years and it had never been fixed or replaced. Hope I don't jinx myself.
    Spraying starter fluid in and getting it started may have given the fuel pump an extra bit of voltage which got it to start up, maybe?
     
  4. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
    1,237
    Meadow Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    R Moseley
    #4 ramosel, Nov 2, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2009
    There is the CIS air flow metering switch on the Fuel injection distributor box. If your sensor plate was stuck and not moving I believe this inhibits the fuel pump. Perhaps just cranking you weren't able to get enough air flow to pull the sensor plate off this switch. By using the starting fluid you got the engine to suck enough air that it did dislodge the sensor plate and allowed the fuel pump to start running and the sensor plate to start metering fuel. You might want to check your sensor plate in the fuel injection distributor and see if its sticking. If it happens again, you should be able to unplug this switch and get the motor to fire.

    Otherwise you may be correct that its a funky spot on the fuel pump windings or perhaps just a bad fuel pump relay. But your use of the starting fluid seems to override those in my thinking... unless it was just a really odd coincidence starting working the very time you used the starting fluid.

    Just a SWAG...

    Rick
     
  5. PittsS2APilot

    PittsS2APilot Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2007
    857
    Gulfport MS
    Full Name:
    Joe
    Id put my money on a temporary sensor plate being stuck.
     
  6. andy2175m4@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2008
    473
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Andy Rein
    #6 [email protected], Nov 3, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2009
    The airflow sensor plate will stick if the central piston in the fuel distributor sticks. If your 1988 Mondial is indeed a CIS K-Jetronic car, the following discussion pertains. If not, well....???

    The central piston may be gummed up by years of gasoline flowing thru it, and yes, the fuel pump will not run if that plate does not move a bit. There is a microswitch on the airflow plate that controls the pump.

    On thing I did not get from the original post, how long did the car sit before it would not start ?? If it was a few weeks or a couple months, I would think it was the fuel distributor central piston.

    The cure for this problem would be rebuild the fuel dist. per the posted procedures, or drive it more often.
     
  7. eurogt4

    eurogt4 Karting

    Apr 15, 2006
    243
    Sacramento, CA
    Full Name:
    Mike
    You are correct that the non-movement of the air flow plate will prevent the fuel pump from running, but I believe that the starter motor circuit overrides this and operates the fuel pump relay to run the pump while cranking.
     
  8. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    Thanks for your ideas. In answer to one question, the car is, literally, a daily driver, so it never sits for more than 10 days (in a good year when I can afford a decent vacation!).
    Where is the offending item I need to clean?
    Thanks: David
     
  9. ramosel

    ramosel Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
    1,237
    Meadow Vista, CA
    Full Name:
    R Moseley
    It's all within the fuel injection assembly. Pivot for the sensor plate and the piston/valve inside the distributor head are on the upper shell. I'd tread lightly here. If you are unsure or unfamiliar engage a local pro or send your parts to Larry Fletcher. I've got mine all torn down and waiting to get my parts back from Larry this week. You can see sensor plate in picture 034 and the piston in picture 048. Be careful, there is a spring deep inside there too.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/moseley_ferrari/sets/72157622414223889/


    Rick
     
  10. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
    2,248
    Full Name:
    David Lind
    Thanks very much. When I get a 2 day breather, I'll dive into it!
     

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