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Broken shock--I think

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by atlantaman, Mar 19, 2004.

  1. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    I ahve suddenly hdiscovered a very unsetteling and weird happening. My 308 suddenly seems to want to turn to the left when I apply gas and to the right when i back off.

    This is pretty severe too--nothing is loose or broken-- the only thing i can see unusual is when i "bounce" up and down on the corners the right rear shock makes a hissing sound where the other 4 corners do not...

    Sound familiar to anyone???
     
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  3. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,149
    way north california
    Full Name:
    chris morse
    Charles,

    This is serious ****, especially if it started quickly.
    Have you checked the car up in the air? If it is on the ground, the weight of the car could make play not easily detected.
    If something were loose in the right rear, bearing or bushing, acceleration would cause the wheel to come foreward, toeing in, this on balance would cause the back of the car to shift to the left and make the car go right on power. not your problem.
    If the problem were on the left rear, looseness would manifest as you have described.
    If the problem were on the right front:
    Maybe a tie rod end, (steering play) or
    wheel bearing, possibly evidenced by aparently excessive r.f. camber or jacked up by rocking tire top and bottom,
    or by loose A arm pivot mounting bolts which may have allowed alignment shims to loosen and drop out exacerbating, (quickly) front end play.
    sorry, I am getting tired.
    let me know what's going on.

    chris
     
  4. jmillard308

    jmillard308 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2003
    5,966
    Perth West Oz
    Full Name:
    John Millard
    Charles
    Not shocks
    Assuming tyre pressures OK, something is moving in your suspension - as you describe it, most probably the rear.
    Get it up in the air and check all linkages. mounting points etc. Particularly where the lower wishbone bracket bolt goes through the chassis rail.
    Hope that helps
    John
     
  5. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    I had all 4 weels off the ground last night and inspected everything--even snaked a fibre-optic scope in transaxle to look at bearings --nothing.

    all is tight. definately feels like it is in the rear thou.
    I notices left rear tire was down about 5 psi-- i fixed that but it still does it.

    I have a new front right tie rod end already since the nut was getting bad on it but it is currently tight and solid.

    Thursday I was trying to beat a red light and shot thru an intersection too fast and danm got airborn---that is when it all started.

    I have all new bearings in rear uprights too--less than 2 months ago
     
  6. TOM B

    TOM B Formula 3

    Jul 24, 2003
    1,038
    Orange County, NY
    Full Name:
    Thomas Buckley
    I apologize for offering such a simplistic possible solution ------ but check your tire pressures.


    Tom
     
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  8. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    16,028
    Savannah
    Full Name:
    I NEED A JOB
    sounds like a dead / broken gas shock to me. seems like there would be evidence of oil leaking from it, unless it is broken and the seals are still intact, which i saw on my track MR2 a few times. by the way how do you like the bore scope??? you had just gotten it last time we spoke on the phone. i use them at work on annual and 100 hour inspections on turbines all the time. i need to go on ebay and look for one myself!!!! best of luck, dont hurt yourself or your car with those " smokey and the bandit" stunts.... thats my job with all the trans ams i have sitting here!!! ill call you later if i have time, busy day today!!! michael
     
  9. chrismorse

    chrismorse Formula 3

    Feb 16, 2004
    2,149
    way north california
    Full Name:
    chris morse
    Charles,

    If the shock were dysfunctional it would only allow additional undamped vertical movement.
    Something is loose, broken or missing that would allow a tire to change its toe or angle from srtaight ahead.
    On an older thread, I believe someone mentioned a dmaged or missing steering rack mounting bushing - this would certainly allow unwanted front toe change. How does your steering wheel feel is it solid and "normal"??
    I am leaning more toward suspecting something in the rear that would allow the tire to toe in on acceleration and on being pulled rearward by breaking, toe out.
    Loose or Missing rear lower adjustment shims, or upper attachments.
    cracked or broken A Arm(s)
    Loose axle stub nut and hence bearings.

    It may be that with the car jacked up and the wheels removed, that there is enough bind from the suspension pivots or pressure from the shock/spring unit that the play is nor readily aparent.
    I recommend strong light and checking the tightness of all suspendion bolts.

    A most sincere genuflection before the ferrari flag might not go amis either.

    good luck
    chris
     
  10. jmillard308

    jmillard308 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2003
    5,966
    Perth West Oz
    Full Name:
    John Millard
    Charles
    The 308 has a couple of weaknesses, particularly if you are in the habit of using sticky rubber -
    1. Where the lower suspension mounting bolts go through the chassis rail - they have been known to crack the weld of the tube that goes through the rail allowing the wishbone to move laterally, and
    2. The welds on the cross member behind the rearmost suspension mounting point - between the two chassis rails - have failed in the past.
    Easiest way to check is with a large lever (tyre) and see if there is any movement at these points. If you a just doing a "push/pull" test with your hands, you can't apply enough pressure to tell.
    I hope for you it is something else though.
    As the shockers do not locate the suspension as such, only control the vertical movement, I doubt that these would cause the "steering" effect you describe.
    John
     
  11. atlantaman

    atlantaman Formula 3

    Mar 31, 2002
    1,726
    Roswell, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Charles
    all fixed--took all of the rear suspension apart and found where a small metal shaving was trapped under the nut on the top bolt on left rear upright. The bolt appeared to be tight but there was just enough play for the tire to cock inward 1/16 Inch at the front under aceleration and cause the car to "wag"..
     
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  13. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
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    THE Birdman
    Where the heck did a metal shaving come from??
     
  14. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
    Full Name:
    Hans E. Hansen
    It's a shard from Smokey and the Bandit's illegal Coors can.
     

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