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Button update

Discussion in 'F1' started by Hubert, Aug 12, 2004.

  1. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
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    http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=59584

    BAR have now paid Button's bonus

    "BAR's David Richards has now paid Jenson Button more than $3 million in previously withheld points bonus payments, a source has leaked to the media. The source confirmed publications' suspicions that the driver's relationship with BAR soured when Richards repeatedly refused to honour the commitment. "

    Looks like Richards himself has a lot to learn about honoring contractual obligations; he's been ripping Jenson off all season.

    How some of you so quickly slandered Button - yet it in the wash, he's been the gentleman; keeping quiet about being ripped off north of 3million in bonus money, and about Richards abhorent hypocracy.

    I think the media, Bernie E. and millions of fans everywhere owe Jenson an apology.
     
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  3. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
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    Its a freaking soap opera. What's next ... his fiancee leaves him for another driver? :D


    I cant wait for the racing to start again - had enough of this mid-season nonsense. :)
     
  4. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    Amen! :)
     
  5. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Okay that is all very good, but I still say ... anybody that races and is worried or has to have a performance bonus has no place in F1. If you need money to fire you up what chance have you got ... especially against MS who just seems to 200% live for racing.

    In the end I still am upset about BAR been effectively neutred ... and thus we all have lost out. I bet Honda is pissed too. So Richards could have handled it differently ... but so could have JB, and his team of merry fools.

    AND I still think JB was/would be better off at BAR than at Williams. If JB cannot handle and play nicely with Richards, well er, he is going to get completely screwed by the most ruthless bastard in F1: Frank Williams!

    Pete
     
  6. andybm3

    andybm3 Karting
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    Given Williams long history of success vs. a 1 year only success at BAR, JB made the right long term call. With respect to Frank being a bastard, read "The Pirahna Club" they are all bastards..
     
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  8. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    Sato :)

    One minute Michael is not a real racer, the next minute he is living 200% for racing?!?! (flip-flop, flip-flop, flip-flop) Do you seriously think both Michael and Rubens do not have a performance bonus?
     
  9. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
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    MS makes more per annum than the entire grid, Pete. Put it in perspective!
    Moreover, I expect you'll be returning the next bonus you get , or promotion to your employer as you always go above and beyond?

    BAR handed their balls over to Honda, Pete. Short of buying, say, a team like Jordan, Sauber or Minardi Honda could/would not have been given the same amount of input into chassis design, drivetrain and mgmnt as BAR has given them; BAR is a few acute degrees from a Honda works operation.


    How? BAR has been a struggling team, with a boss now reputed to screw his drivers out of well earned pay - something he's contractually obligated to do. Williams has a proven record of constructor's / driver's championships, solid engineering and a strong bond to BMW (who builds one of the most powerful engines on the grid). Honda's involvement is currently seen as transient; they could stay, they could go - then what? BAR turns back to using cosworth lumps? Or, at best, Ferrari lumps? (We've seen with Sauber that even a close relationship with Ferrari, and the use of their internals, doesn't amount to championships).
     
  10. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Pete
    I never said MS was not a real racer ... infact I think he is the only one.

    I'll will go as far to say, if you took all the money away from F1 and paid the drivers nothing, only one driver would turn up and the next test day and that would be: MS. This guy loves the racing!

    Pete
     
  11. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Yes but I have never heard of MS needing a performance bonus to motivate him. Also I truly believe if you stopped paying MS he would still keep on racing.

    Never, ever had one! ... honestly. I work for my own ethics not to somebody elses standards. If I am satisfied then you can 100% bet that my boss will be well and truly happy with me ... nobody is harder on PSk than PSk.

    EDIT: Sorry, I lied, I just remembered that I have received small overtime bonuses ... and yes I did not return it, but I can tell you that it was such a small amount versus the amount of overtime I do that it was more insulting than anything else ... Again I did not do the overtime and complete my tasks on time for the bonus, I did it because I committed myself and the company to that timeline/goal.

    I think you guys are misunderstanding me. For a racing driver to give 150% commitment it requires motivation way bigger than mere money. Money would not make me risk my life and drive closer to that edge of control ... never, but that fire inside would, ie. like Gilles V. and MS. Both those drivers were/are great because they were/are driven by the need to be faster than everybody else ... not to make more money than anybody else.

    When I raced at my club level ... I lived for racing and never, ever made a cent. I would give just about anything to be in JB's position (except my family) and you would not have to pay me a cent!

    Because if JB won even a single race for BAR he would be a huge hero ... he could win a WC with Williams and not be seen as great ... because it would be expected of an average driver to be able to win in a Williams. Look at the MS myth and how that was created by winning in the crappy Benetton and an even crappier Ferrari ... if MS had jumped in a Williams and won the first 2 WC's he would not be a legend like he is now.

    Winning in a not so good car shows the real talent and distances the driver away from the likes of RB, DC and RS ... just good steerers. JB appears to have that extra talent but now we will never know ... if Williams build a good car (and they are due to) then everybody will just say it is the car.

    If I was JB I would want to be that legend ... not just bag an easy WC. I guess the passionate side of motorracing runs way to deep in me ... ;)

    Pete
    ps: Look honestly at your own lives, and tell me the things that are important were obtained via money, really important not just your Ferrari. My wife, my kids and health, my passion towards my favourite sport, motor racing. I only ever competed at a very low level, but I 200% competed and loved every minute of it ... still paying for the money I spent on it, but if I had my life again I would still sink every thing I owned into the sport.

    Surely a driver that has climbed all the way to F1 has the passion for the sport as bad and would be insulted by a team boss saying to him that he would pay him a bonus for every point he scored ... surely that is an insult and thus implying that you are not actually trying your hardest!

    Money is actually a poor motivator ... check any employee survey. Things like job satisfaction, etc. always come first for career motivated people.
     
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  13. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    Just like Mark Webber considers it an insult when he earns a bonus for every point he scores for Jaguar.
     
  14. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Have you also listened to the interviews with Mark about how his focus is 100% on winning and the $10 million Williams is paying him will not change his focus.

    Also I was not aware that Mark got a performance bonus ... and also do you really think a racing driver sitting in 9th place is busting his balls to get the 8th position just for money?

    Would you play professional Rugby and when you are about to smash into another player think yep I'll do this for money ... no way, sport requires the will to win above all else.

    Again money does not motivate the sports person ... it is just for positioning yourself above other drivers, ie. na na na na I get paid more than you.

    Paying RB $10 million more a year is not going to suddenly lift his mediorce performance and he suddenly is getting poles every race ... think about it, you are racing around Monaco, brushing the armco ... you honestly do not think they are thinking about how much they get paid or what bonuses they are getting as they continue to push and challenge the guy in front of them???

    Pete
    ps: Think of the basket ball player or base ball ... surely you do not honestly believe money motivates those skillfull people ... surely. It is something within that has grown since they were a child, something that NO money could buy or replace.

    The money comes afterwards but can not replace it.

    For example you could pay me $1 billion a year and I still could not play basket ball at all, I could still not love the game, never. You have to live the game to have the commitment and passion those guys have for it ... and the skill follows the passion as when they were young they were always playing it, practicing, learning how to be the best and fulfil this passion.

    You could not take a kid off the streets and start paying him to love basket ball and turn him into a professional player ... no way, interest and passion has to come first.
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Also for all you guys that think money motivates F1 drivers, I ask you this.

    When MS was 4 years old and driving around a gokart track on second hand tyres ... what motivated him?

    Do you honestly think he was dreaming that I'll be a F1 driver one day so I can be rich?

    Ofcourse not he was dreaming about being the damn fastest driver the world has ever seen ... money has nothing to do with sports motivation, nothing at all!.

    Money motivates the corporate world because when these people were 4 years old they WERE dreaming about being rich one day ... see the difference.

    Pete
     
  16. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

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    I don't think anyone has said that JB is motivated by money. A contract is a contract, and if you are scoring the points, WHY NOT get the money? I've also read that JB had a very poor relationship with Dave Richards anyway.
     
  17. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Well according to the press Dave Richards and JB relationship fell apart due to the fact that BAR did not pay him the agreed performance bonus ... sounds like motivated by money to me.

    BUT to be fair to JB, the fact that they had agreed to something and then BAR did not follow through is disappointing.

    I guess also the teams and drivers may use the performance bonus to hike up the salary they can offer them ??

    Anyway just to make everything clear, I do not wish JB any harm, I wish him the best of luck at Williams ... I am just disappointed that we will not see him pushing an underdog team anymore ... that was exciting to watch and appreciate.

    Pete
     
  18. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

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    Williams is an underdog team. Have you looked at the constructors championship lately? :)
     
  19. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    :) ... you know what I meant ;)

    Pete
     
  20. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    I will be the first person to say that it takes passion to perform well in sport. However, money is a fact of reaity in F1. The travel bills, the lawyers and the mangers do not pay for themselves. Its all fine and dandy that you get points for the team but both the driver's and the team principals need to follow contractual obligations. When was the last time you heard this kind of mess at Scuderia Ferrari? The fact of the matter is that BAR are a young team and David Richards now has a reputation for not following contractual obligations.

    No one is arguing about the passion and interest it takes to perform well in any sport. That is not the issue being discussed here. Motivation to perform comes from within and no amount of money can change that. However, motivation to work for someone is partially influenced by the way they treat you.

    Would you ike to work for a boss that screws you out of your contractual returns? I guess not, thought so!
     
  21. owsi

    owsi Karting

    Dec 7, 2003
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    Pete,

    I think that part of the reason you have a problem with the money aspect of JB's move stems from the fact that, as I understand it, you never raced for a salary. So, for you, the passion was all there was and it was all about the racing. For guys like JB racing is a job. It is a job alot of us would like to have, but a job none the less. You talked about your commitment to doing a good job for your company and not needing a bonus to motivate you, but my question is, how long would your personal commitment to doing a good job for your company have lasted if your company started only paying you 75% of you agreed upon salary? I'm going to guess that you still would have worked hard, but you probably would also have started looking for somewhere else to work. Nobody likes to be screwed, and anyone with a backbone is not going to stand there and let someone do it to them. It is a principals thing, and I think you understand that.

    Also, you said that anyone that needs a performance bonus has no place in F1. Well, I guess JB deserves to be in F1. Even though at the time he had not been paid his bonus, JB fought up from mid-grid to 2nd in Germany, with a helmut that was choking him for half the race. Sounds like more then just motivation for money to me.
     
  22. watt

    watt Formula 3

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    pete's off the wall on this one. i read last week and posted that richards was welshing on JB's $ -- any normal worker would split under those conditions. i thought richards was OK until i read that.

    if he does that, there's 10 other things he does to screw people around the edges all day long, a guy worth avoiding as he wants to hold onto a penny even if it pisses off and demotivates his people
     
  23. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Yes I can see your point ... and have to agree. I do find the concept that it is only a job difficult to accept ... what a job :)

    Pete
     
  24. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

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    hehe :)
     

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