Buying 348 Spider and has questions.

Hey, its great the seller suggested a PPI thats a very good sign. Definately do it

Ferraris are not difficult to drive but they require more talent than a Lincoln Town Car to drive well

an oil change may run $300 or so.

Not sure about the engine out service on a 348 as I only have a 308 & 512TR

If you have to pull the engine for service this will occur every 15,000 miles or 3 years, it could be different for the 348, check the owners manual or ask a mechanic

Anyways that service could cost roughly $5,000. So its important to find out when the last service was done. If the seller doesnt know or its been a while you can use this to negotiate the price

Also make sure you get all the tools & books that come w the car

and GET ANY PROMISES IN WRITING !!!!!!

Good luck

 

I owned a 1994 348 Spider for several years and it proved to be very reliable. 1)Ferrari maintenance is costly as compared to most other makes. Oil changes and accessory belt changes are no more expensive than other European marques though. The engine out cam belt change will set you back $5k or so depending on where you have the work done, but it is only needed every 42,500 miles or 5 years . 2) I would pick my own mechanic do to a PPI...never use the one the seller recommends. Expect a cost of $500 or so and be sure it includes a compression and leak down test as well as an inspection of the entire car.3) The 348 is no more difficult to drive than any other mid-engined car. And, you should warm up EVERY car for a few minutes before driving it, Ferrari or not,...and the oil temp should be at least 160f or so before using WOT. 4)It is a good idea on all Ferrari transaxle cars to skip 2nd gear until the gearbox oil warms up...it helps save the gears and syncros. 5) I never had a problem with my 348 battery, but I did drive it at least once a week or so. If you do plan to let it sit for weeks without driving it, a trickle charger is a good idea though. While the 348 is a fine car that I enjoyed owning and driving...for a first Ferrari I would recommend a 12 cylinder car in order to get the full Ferrari experience.

 

Yes, Ferrari maintenance can be VERY costly. However you can off set the cost by doing your own work. The oil change for example. You can expect to pay at least $300 at the dealer. But by doing it yourself around $80. The same deal for the accessory belts. You'll get quoted $6000 at the dealer for the engine out major. Then add at least another $1k for things they find while they are at it. Doing the job yourself it can be done for around $1,800. Even if you do your own work you will still have do deal with the nutty prices for the parts.

Another big maintenance part is the clutch. That can range from $2,500 - $7,000.

I would get the PPI done at a place other than were the seller suggested. A good PPI should set you back $250 - $350.

Yes you will need to warm the car up for at least 5 minutes. First, because if you don't 348's have a tendancy to be a pain to get into 2nd gear until the car is warm. Then the shifting is not problem. Second, because you want the temperatures of the fluids at the right temp before you drive. This is important on any car, not just Ferrari's.

You can drive the car where ever you like. But keep in mind, the more stop and go traffic, the more wear on the clutch.

See above.

Yes. This is very common with all Ferrari's. They do then to wear down the battery charge just sitting there.

Well looks can be deceptive. With those kind of miles I would want to see ALL documentation of the service history of the car. You will also want to see when the last time was the cam belts were changed. If they have no solid proof, consider them NEVER done. Also because the car has very few miles on it. Seals will go bad as rubber gets hard over time. Then there are onther things that can creep up. This is why you need to see the PROOF of the maintenace records.

How ever since it is a '94 it will have all of the updates.

Maintaining a Ferrari is what is hard. Some only require fliud changes, gas and go. While others can be money pits.


Last do a search of the archives. There is loads and loads and loads of info for you to read.

 

See this site for some ideas -- it has some good guidelines: http://emelbon.tripod.com/eugeniosferrariservice.html

Usually $200-$500, depending on what's done. A compression and leakdown test can point out some potentially expensive engine issues, and you may be paying more towards $500 for a complete PPI that includes those tests. There are plenty of independents in SoCal who can do a Ferrari PPI - sometimes the dealers don't like doing them due to the liability. It's safe to say that almost everyone here will advise that you have a PPI done.

I haven't driven a 348, so please defer to anyone else here who posts about it. I have driven 328's (similar or same gearbox, I believe), and until it's warm second gear is inaccessible. However the ratios are so close that frankly it's not a problem to grab third -- this is a high-revving engine, so you won't be lugging it. This is common to the cars, not a repair issue unless someone tries to force it into second cold and damages the syncro.

The V-8 Ferrari's are easier to drive than the bigger cars - Testarossas and probably the Boxers - they're small, and you can see out of them a bit better. The 348 is quite short. I believe it lacks power steering, which will build up your arm muscles a bit during parking manoeuvres. Short drives are NOT what Enzo intended, and I don't think you'll ever get the car warmed up enough taking it to the movies (and I don't know why you'd park a Ferrari convertible at a movie theater, which is the number one place for car break-in's, but I digress...)

If you get the car, drive it with some vigor at least once a week. A Ferrari that sits in a garage on a battery tender for weeks at a time isn't going to be a happy car. That said, I think the advice you got about the battery tender, PPI, etc., is sound. My weekend car has been a Porsche to this point, and even with that I don't start the car up just for a half mile jaunt to Blockbuster.

1994 is likely the best (and last) year for 348's, but the cars have a lot of specific foibles. If you do a quick search on cars for sale at Ferrari dealers (ferrariusa.com has a marketplace), DuPont Registry and of course here on FerrariAds, you can see the asking prices.

Also do a search here on '348' and you'll see that love/hate affair with the 348 has been talked to death and then some. Someone posted recently that the 348 is the best buy in modern Ferrari's for performance, but know that the price takes into account some of the maintenance costs you alluded to above.

 

The Ferrari 348 pre-purchase inspection checklist and other tips are located here: http://webpages.charter.net/aircover/348/1994Ferrari348Spider.html

 

Pulling out the engine every 15000 sounds like total overkill to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Ferrari mainenance schedule calls for a engine out service every 30k miles (at least on TRs)...and I've talked to a few Ferrari mechanics and they say that often the belts and cam bearings still looked like new even after 30k miles..

 

The Ferrari 348 Owner's Manual (U.S. version) says to pull the engine and change the cam belt (just one) every 52,500 miles. Most U.S. Ferrari dealerships suggest making the change every 3 years or 30,000 miles (whichever comes first).

The owner's manual, however, does say to check the tension on the cam belt every 15,000 miles (but that does not require taking the engine out).

 

$7K for a clutch?

 

Olivier, the average from ferrari now states 3 yrs 15,000 not 7yrs and 30,000. I am on my 7th year and no where near 15,000 either, but they wear due to age more than use, unless you track the car. My book says 7 yrs on it, so I am following that and or sooner.

 

The first to third gear is only required when the car is run for the first time during the day in my experience. After it warms up from the first drive of the day you can leave it sitting for around two hours without any problem getting into second gear easily. I also have never had a problem with a dead battery. I do not have an alarm on the car which I suspect can drain the battery over the course of a week of non use. I drive the car about once every two to three weeks. If you are in the South Florida area let me know if you want a comparison drive in my 348 (though it is a much earlier model than the one you are looking at). One nice thing about the 348 is that you will usually be the only one at any given event.
BT

 

First step is to find a mechanic you trust and is well respected in the Ferrari community. Maybe that's the dealer - but for 348's you can also easily use an independent. I agree with the previous posters that using your own mechanic for a PPI is preferred. It's critical that you understand what shape everything is in - accident damage, etc... Remember, he controls your retirement account, be nice to him, you need him more than he needs you!

There's quite a few 348 spiders around, so take your time. I really like the raw feeling of the manual steering, and find it fairly easy to park etc. But does take some getting used to. I too skip 2nd gear when cold, but more out of the advice of the mechanic, it works easily when cold, but why risk it. Transaxle problems are as big $'s as big engine problems. There's quite a few threads on starting procedures - but I typically keep to trips of 10 miles or more before taking the 348. The startup cycle can be a bit of a pain, but it is what it is. I would never leave it at the move theatre, but do leave it parked downtown for business often.

Synchro's, transaxles, and engines are the areas I'd be most concerned about, and you pretty well need an expert to take a look at it 1st.

Even if it's the most perfect 348 spider ever made, you're likely to trip over some silly maintenance thing that'll cost $'s after you start putting miles on the car - remember it's averaging 1k a year for miles, you'll probably put that much on the first month (if the mileage is real - many aren't). I had to do the clutch on mine, the throw-out bearing seized. And had a few other really minor things done. like oil change and tightening some stuff up. it all adds up. Mine was $5k CDA after the dust was settled. I had planned for up to $15k, and mine too was perfect from an FNA dealer.

I first came across a "perfect" 348 spider that just needed a tune-up. The PPI showed significantly more work was needed - I walked from that one, it was scary $'s to put right.

I can go weeks with the battery still effective, but did leave the cell-phone charger chord plugged in for two days (without a phone attached) and that drained it. There's charging posts in the engine bay, no need to pull the tire. But I don't run an alarm, amps, or stuff.

The Ferrari's I've driven, have all been much easier to drive than I'd anticipated (except the TR's are a little large for city work). But drive a 348 first, and if you'd like something a bit softer, the 355 is the model.

I budget a minimum of $1k/year for oil/checkup/etc - maybe a lot more depending what I do to her.

They're a lot of fun to drive. If you can one your mechanic likes, and can handle some risk to your maintenance costs, go for it!

 

My 89 Mondial t has the same drivetrain as the 348. My car had been driven 1000 miles in 5 years by owner #2 before I bought it. The first week with it had all the signs of lack-of-use problems including sputtering exhaust and difficult shifting when cold.

I have put 1000 miles on her in 2.5 months and she runs great. Even before I put Redline synthetic in the gearbox (based on fchat recommendations) I settled into this routine that seemed to assist cold shifting:
1. Before starting, put car into neutral and give the stick a little wiggle side to side.
2. Depress the clutch all the way and release.
3. Start

I started the car in 40 degree weather the other day and although the shift was stiff, yes, I still had no problem with getting it into first and second both up and down.

 

Nope, very different design.

I'm not a fan of the 348 box, I found that the ones I drove were always "notchy" compared to 308 and 328 gearboxes, even when warm.

 

The secret to the 348 gear shift, in addition to using red line's gear oil, is shifting the car into 1st gear and while still holding the clutch down shifting from first into reverse. This seems to reset the tranny such that you get great shifts for the rest of the day.

So before shifting into reverse, shift into 1st gear and then into reverse (all in one motion).

 

I have a 308 and a 348. Both are very notchy when cold. Neither go into second until warm. Once warm the both feel similar. I don't notice anymore notchy feel in 348 than 308.

The 308 does not have sychro's in reverse so putting it into 2nd to set the tranny makes easier transition. I don't notice any of that in the 348.

 

That price is if you need to buy a new flywheel in addition to the clutch. The flywheel cost at least $3,000 for the part only.

 

Holy platinum and diamond-encrusted flywheels, batman...

 

TJ,
You have probably already noticed there are lots of different opinions about maintenance, shifting, warming and so forth. I did own a 94 TB for quite a while, put 14K on it so I'll add a few observations without being too repititious.

All Ferraris cost a lot to maintain and major services are almost always due because of time rather than mileage, but as Ferraris go, 348's may be the costliest to maintain, at least among 8 cylinders. Most mechanics I know of suggest 5 year interval for timing belt, some say 3 years, some say a little longer. Many people think regular driving helps so that the belt doesn't take a set in one position. Over the long term, it will probably average 3K a year whether you drive it much or not. So, better to drive I figure. 348's also suffer from more electrical problems and engine management gremlins, but this varies greatly from car to car. Mine had none, a neighbor with a 1990 has had none over 7 years, but I know others who spent a lot of time and money chasing down frustrating gremlins.

Waiting 5 minutes for warmup is not necessary. A minute is fine as long as you drive very easy until you have some oil temperature showing.

Every Ferrari I have driven (quite a few) shifts a little differently, but, overall I would say 348's are the worst of breed here. Careful adjusting of the cables can sometimes help, but the system is notoriously troublesome and Ferrari abandoned it with the 355. My '94 was, by far, the worst of the 7 Ferraris I have had ranging from a 1977 to 2005. Rather than skipping 2nd, I usually start out in 2nd from a stop. The gear is plenty low enough that you can start easy with basically no clutch slippage.

I don't recommend short trips in Ferraris. It takes a long time to get the 10-11 quarts of oil up to temperature and I think it is bad to drive them a short distance and then put them away for a while. Not good for any car really, but most cars only have 5 quarts to warm up and no oil coolers working against you.

Ferraris in general and especially pre '95's are a lot more work to drive than your average Civic which appeals to most owners but puts off many first time owners. You won't know if you like it until you have driven one for a while.

The good thing about spiders is that they had all the updates of the series which were quite numerous and important on 348's.

Good luck,
Dave

 

That sounds more like it!! I've heared about recommended belt INSPECTION every 15k miles..
Well, there's no such thing as too much maintenance, but the question is if it's needed.. I'd say that it depends A LOT on how the car is driven.

 

As I said in a previous post, I believe that it depends a lot how the car is used. If the car spends a lot of time without being started, the belts might dry out faster than on a car that is driven at least once a week etc.
I did a lot of research online and I also asked people that work on those cars and it seems that if the vehicle was driven frequently and has not been driven hard, 30000 miles or 5 - 7 years seems to be good enough..

 

Don't know about the 348's, but the prices on TR clutches can be pretty pricey. However, I found a place that sells remanufactored TR clutches for about $900 (with exchange).
I believe that I should be able to change the clutch myself.. My clutch should be due any time soon (over 15k miles on it)... However, I believe Dwight (HUTCH91TR) who was the previous owner of my TR did make a few longer trips. Longer trips aren't as bad on the clutch as lots of short trips..so the clutch might still have some life left. I've read about instances where they lasted over 20k miles...

 

My first Ferrari was a 94 348 spider that came from the Beverly Hills dealership. It was a fairly low mileage car at the time, and when it was delivered to my local dealer (then Algar) they expressed delight at how 'clean' the car was. I hadn't driven any automobile for close to 20 years, and stepping out in this car after that kind of hiatus was not that much of a challenge:- I got back my chops, shifting and the like, but until you have driven a midengine car which is capable of a fairly high level of performance, you will not get anywhere near the limits of the car- you will experience instead, your limitations as a driver. (The problem with these cars is simply that you can lose the tail if you do something silly, and it isn't necessarily easy to recapture it unless you have a little skill. That is something solved by a decent racing/track type driving school, and some discipline and practice in your shifting, braking and approach to car dynamics). The 348 is small, very tossable, has no power steering, which is great for road feel, and is overall, an easy car to manage.
The PPI is critical- you want the most anal mechanic you can find. Not all problems are serious, but it's better to know them and dismiss them rationally, than to learn about them after you own the car.
It sounds like your seller is an enthusiast. That much is good. But, as others have said, the condition of the car is critical, and that's not something eyeballing alone (particularly without knowedge of what to look for on these cars) can reveal.
My car burned a decent amount of oil when I first got it; I drove the hell out of it after its previous owner apparently used it to drive to lunch on Rodeo Drive. I installed a Tubi exhaust, got rid of the mediocre stereo, replaced some of the carpeting with factory stuff (because it had been cut for the speakers) and eventually, had the front spoiler trimmed by a fraction of an inch for better driveway clearance. The car, when I sold it (I actually traded it in for a later Ferrari) was in every bit as good a condition as it was when I bought it, and had the advantage of having been gone over thoroughly and driven a fair amount in the year or so that I owned it.
It is a good introduction to Ferrariland if the car is a 'right' car. Good luck, and let us know what happens.