Looking at an early Merak with a broken timing belt. Car is in overall tatty condition , minor rust, and I can't tell much about the brakes... I know that buying a "good" car is the best plan... I just can't ever follow my own rules. I think I can get this "cheap"... so a few questions: What's the best solution for the engine? Rebuil or replace? What's this going to cost me? (I see broken SM's...usually automatics... going for almost nothing... are these a reasonable donor?) What else should I look for? Is there is rust location that would move the car into the "parts only" pile? How badly are the brakes going to hit my wallet if they need work? Any easy conversion to conventional out there? What would "cheap" be for a car like this (knowing I can get a decent one in the mid-teens?) Thanks for any advice! Bill
t really depends on how much work you are planning to do yourself. What year is it? If it's not a late model car then there is simply not a way that you will end up right side up. You can pick up a running decent 74/75 ish for 12K. On the other hand a 79SS will run you close to 20 for a nice car. A okay paint job is going to cost 4k, interior 5k if you know somebody. Then of course there is the rust problem. These cars are notorious for having rust below the gas tanks. It's common that you won't see this until you hit a bit bump and then the bottom end of the car behind the doors to the back cracks. The problem is that they basically used household insulation between the tanks and the body. This holds moisture and ah rust... It's also common to have severe rust in the doors. There is a guy who will rebuild the accumulators cheap, but the hydraulic pump can cost a couple of bucks.. Good Luck
The Merak has timing chains,not belts and if something related to this broke then you can be sure that major damage has been done.Do you have any previous Maser experience?If not then be prepared to be frightened many times if you do buy it.The lack of parts availability is frightening,The cost of available parts is frightening,The build quality(or lack there of) of Maser's is frightening.The accessability of various components or systems is frightening.So if you've never been frightened by a Maser before,prepare yourself.
I thought about buying a vintage Maser a few months ago. Then I read this on the Maser yahoo group: _____________________________________________ Dear All, "I was wondering what the general service costs on a Maserati Khamsin? What are service intervals? Where does one get parts and service done? (Ferrari dealership?) I called them, I am looking at a '77, and they say it has no rust. It also has 88k miles. How many miles does a Maserati engine run for before needing a top end or complete rebuild? (note They claim it has a car rebuild from 02)" What is it about the above message that struck most of us into stunned numbness -- the total inability to know even where to start? In any other forum, the questions would have seem completely ordinary ..... The angels of my lesser nature bring out the grizzled veteran in me. The vet who ignores the FNGY because he doesn't want to make the investment of time in a item with so little chance of survival. He just can't bear the pain of again. His answer to the questions would the somewhat short and cruel: "There are no general service costs on these cars. The service interval is the time between when you drove it last and when you intend on driving it again. The service cost is whatever is currently in your bank account, your wallet and the spare change in your pocket. Don't worry about what needs service, it all does." "Your Khamsin can be readily serviced at your local Citroen dealer, just look him up in the Yellow Pages. If you show up at your local Ferrari dealer you can expect to see a pained looked on his face while he wonders how long it will take for you and your car to get off his lot. As for parts, you skulk the nether parts of the world, secretly handing money over to guys who only have first names like "Jacques" or "Kyle". "The car has no rust? Great. If the car is as original from the factory, it has rust. It just depends on whether you choose to notice it or not. If it doesn't flake off in your hand, then you are just fine. As for the 88K miles, that can be looked at in two ways: Good, in that the car got that far and is therefore somewhat proven; or Bad, in that you are about to meet Kyle and Jacques." "Look, kid, my advice is that if you are looking for an exotic good time why not just go out and buy some coke, rent a blonde floozy and head off for a Caribbean weekend. You are guaranteed a good time and any pain and guilt will be short lived. A Maserati is forever." But then there is the better side of our nature. The one that pets the dog in the morning and is actually amused by the richness and exuberance of our child's crayon marks on the fresh whiteness of the hallway wall. That member of this group says: "Hey, there really isn't any local dealer or anyone to whom you can just take your car, drop it off, and then come back at 5 o'clock knowing with confidence that all is well with the world. And service intervals and "miles between" rebuilds are concepts that really don't make any sense when you own a work of such uniqueness and artistry." "If you like the car, and are truly looking forward to an adventure in ownership and driving, than just buy the thing. We will make every effort to get you the help you need and we will just face the problems, one-at-a-time." "Come on in, the water's great!" So, what is the real answer here? I just don't know. While the initial questions trouble me because of their references to normality and predictability, I would not want to discourage anyone from what is truly one of the greatest adventures of all time. So, I just may sit in my foxhole on this one and just bask in the small rays of sunshine the slip over the edge of the brim.
There is no lack of parts. Citroens are a dime a dozen. My mechanic has 8 in his lot for spare Merak parts. You can get brand new part from http://www.campanacarrozzeria.it. Engine parts are for that matter trim parts are not an issue and in fact have come down in price over the years. Parts were an issue with MIE was the only game, but thats long ago. The issue is really more the paint, interior and rust. This will cost you a bunch more than to get the car running and in good mechanical order. There are plenty of mechanics scattered throughout the US to work on Maseratis. On my last trip to my mechanic he had my Indy two Meraks and a Quattroporte all being working on. His rate is $60 and hour, much less than you would get your BMW, ... working on for.
DBCOOPER don't know nutin' about Masers. On the other hand an early Merak is not a good investment and slow as hell. If it needs that much work save yourself and just buy a good one. There aren't many around for the reasons I mentioned above. The early Meraks have all the Citroen hydraulics which may not be to your liking. The later ones SS model do not and they have the larger motor. I don't like this motor and no it's not the precursor to the Bitrubo engine, there's no relationship. It's a pretty looking car and they handle pretty well but a Bora is so much more car. It's all very repairable and there's even a Yahoo group devoted to the Citroen SM which has a whole lot in common with the Merak so there's plenty of help out there. The build quality is very good they are strong as tanks and as such a tad heavier than the equivalent Ferrari. It's all steel construction. It is true that parts availabilty is not as good as Ferrari and some stuff is down right stupid expensive but if you're not restoring a basket case and you work at it a little parts are not unreasonable. Have fun Bob S.
i have had both a merak ss and then stepped up to a bora. both cars were great fun and both looked sexy as hell! oddly, the merakss was just below a 308 gtb performance wise and the bora was faster than the 308 but not as fast as the boxer. both missed the mark of the competition of sorts. today, they both represent a seriously great value in an exotic. but do not tinker w/ a basket case car as you will never get out of it and may never have any fun w/ ownership as it will never be correct or 100%. i had a 79 ss w/ original paint (almost zero paint checking) w 17k miles and effectively as new!! i owned it for 3 years and sold it for 17.5k. it was such a serious bargain. no regrets durring ownership...but please consider buying a complete and sorted car as you will be hurt by the car needing work. additionally, consider a bora that is properly maitained. they are true gt's!!
michael...by no means a phsycic..but i see a boxer in your future!!! i am in charlotte now, please feel free to come up to see my boxer or 930. i know they are two cars that you like enough to consider purchase. pcb
Seems like I remember reading somewhere that a Merak has some sort of bizarre brake pedal system. Enlighten me. Also, I saw a Merak at a swap meet a few years ago. Asking price was $17,000. It was in excellent condition.
The brake system was part of the Citroen high pressure hydraulic circuit also common to the Khamsin. It consisted of a little mushroom pedal that had very little give and lots of brake pressure. People say once you get used to it, it's pretty effective.
The other interesting fact is a rather old, sitting Citroen braking system can still be in perfect shape. While a normal break system would have calipers that were trashed etc. On the other hand the couple of times I have driven one it was ah strange.
Great car yeah the brakes are a pain in the a$$ when they need work(mine is currently in the shop having the pump reco)performance is a tad less than the gt4 but a different car to drive.Iwould advise you to wait and get a well sorted car or like others have said the Bora
The braking system on the early Meraks comes from Citroen. It's their high pressure hydraulic system which they use to operate the self centering steering, suspension, brakes of their cars and in Maserati's the head light buckets, seats(Bora & Khamsin) and foot pedals on the Bora. The Khamsin uses it for the clutch pedal and steering as well. This gives a very odd feeling setup. It's 2 turns lock to lock, you can turn the wheel with a single finger in the parking lot and at speed it has a boost regulator which operates mechanically off of the rear differential. On the Maserati's there is a normal looking brake pedal but is has almost zero travel. Braking is modulated, if you can use that term here, by the amount of pressure applied to the pedal which you feel in your leg but there's no movement. It takes some getting used to it but at speed and on the track the power is quite impressive. The system is very robust if it's properly maintained. The problem is that very often it is not and by the time you get the car you're looking at some work. Some of this is due to people not being familiar with the system. It takes a mineral oil based hyraulic fluid know as LHM which is the same as that used on some older Rolls Royce models. Dopes put brake fluid in the system and it ruins the rubber. This stuff is much better at longevity than brake fluid. It's not hygroscopic so water doesn't get in the system nearly as much as it does with brake fluid. That's why if it's properly maintained the system can stay in great shape for a long time. That's also why the systems don't get maintained properly. Some people think they can do nothing to the system and get away with it. You do have to recharge or replace the pressure accumulaters periodically even if the car has not had much use. The later Meraks had none of this system. The Bora and Khamsin always did. There were even some late Maserati Indys that had this system. Bob S.
Keep in mind if you buy it cheap & restore it . It is Very likely to cost more to restore than what a much nicer car would cost to buy + you get to drive that one right now. I heard a guy with a Bora had to pay $16,000 for a camshaft.
That's just plain stupid on his part and probably an urban legend. You don't even pay that much for an entire engine rebuilt, including the engine. Where do you guys get this stuff? Bob S.
The timing chain is a single row chain and will eventually strecth and/or break again. Not only is the braking system the same as a Citroen but the engine is the same as the Citroen SM. With the air injection systen connected the exhaust manifolds would glow orange and even catch fire. These same manifolds are prone to cracking also. The electrics are for the most part British so it appears that you get the worst of both worlds. All restorations should be a labor of love and not an investment. If it is what you want to, go for it, but please do not try to throw the investment card into the pile.
Thanks much for all of the replies; very interesting thread. Car is a '75 (with the smaller engine, high pressure brakes, and the odd dash). I do most of my own work, am not a purist, and generally put together only drivers, not show cars. Was not looking to make any money from the car, but also not to put $20k into it when a nice one can be bought in the low to mid teens. So what I gather, this car I'm looking at is basically highest valued as a parts car only... Thanks again! I'll let you know what I eventually decide to do... Bill
bill, i think you are making the correct, non-emotional decision. call eddie karam in philly and see if he knows where my red 79 ss might be? it was really really a stunner.
Here was the car I was going to offer $3000-4000 for....and decided to pass on altogether. Guess others had a different idea of what it was worth... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4549210866&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT Bill
What a moron ... just make one for pete's sake. Why are people so bloody stupid that they think the only person/company that can make car parts are the original suppliers? ... they are just bits of metal/plastic/whatever, like every other designed component in the world. Come down to New Zealand or Australia ... we don't just buy and bolt on parts down here, we use our brains and make them (if necessary). Pete's
Yep that's what people said when I sold my Indy for 30k. Money was in the bank within a couple of days That being said, I think the buyer was nuts. But then again the guy that purchased my car has been buy many GT class cars. This is causing GT class Maseratis to go way up in price.
