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Buying a car in the Netherlands to use to tour France and Switzerland

Discussion in 'Europe' started by bergxu, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,284
    OnTheSerpentMound
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    Hello all,

    Wondering if someone can assist me with some information regarding a potential car purchase abroad...

    I am looking at purchasing a classic Peugeot 504 Coupe which is for sale at ER Classics in the Netherlands and was hoping I could have the car shipped to a friend in Paris where we would then collect it and proceed to spend a week or thereabouts driving through southern France and over to Geneva, Switzerland. We would then return the car to Paris where it would ultimately be shipped back here to the US. The dealer, ER Classics, claim since they took the car on trade, they consider it a "1:1 sale" which means they just turn around and sell it for the price they gave the prior owner on trade and do not consider it an "official" unit in their inventory so therefore handle the sale of it in a different fashion than they would with a car they originally purchased for resale. That said, they claim they cannot offer me a temporary registration on which to drive the car for 7-10 days before we fly back home to the US due to the nature of this particular vehicle having been a trade in.

    We would be flying over to France in the beginning of May 2018 and the dealer have offered to store the car for me at their warehouse until the end of April as part of the deal and then would transport the car to Paris upon our arrival however in order to get the offer of free storage, they would want me to finalize the purchase before the end of 2017, so I am presented with an issue of how to go about obtaining a temporary license or export tag, either from the motor vehicle authorities in the Netherlands or in France. My only thought is that once the paperwork would arrive here to me after I buy the car, I would obtain a 30 day registration from the state of Ohio bureau of motor vehicles and then pack it with me when we fly over and put it on the car for the duration of our tour, however I am uncertain as to whether I can legally drive abroad with that.

    Can anyone offer any advice on how to handle this? I've always wanted to tour Europe in a classic car and this seems to be a great opportunity but licensing it appears to be a problem, particularly due to the gap in time between me actually buying the car and getting over to Europe to physically collect it.

    Regards,
    Aaron
     
  2. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Apr 29, 2004
    10,601
    The Netherlands
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    Hi Aaron,

    Is it the blue one? That's a very pretty looking car! A few things come to mind when reading your post:
    - ER Classics is one of those companies with a very large inventory and turn over. A PPI is always a must, but certainly with companies like these.
    - almost sixty pictures and none of the engine? Hmmm...
    - the description by ER Classics says: "Optically in neat condition and a perfect car for the hobbyist" Meaning it looks okay but in need of mechanical restoration (maybe that's why there are no engine pics).
    - it seems that the car is for sale on consignment. Trust me, ER Classic will ask more than they pay the owner, so they should work with you a bit. Giving you a deadline of effectively three work days is unacceptable to me. Also, consignment means no guarantees, but any warranty would mean nothing to you anyway because the car will go abroad. So a PPI is even more important than usual.
    - judging from the pictures it has a Dutch registration plate. In The Netherlands the plate stays with the car, not the owner. I think it would be easier to keep it on Dutch plates then to go through an inspection and registration process in France. I don't know how it works though for a foreign owner. Maybe you could contact a company in The Netherlands who helps expats?

    Good luck!

    Peter
     
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  3. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,284
    OnTheSerpentMound
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    Aaron
    Hi Peter,

    Thank you for the speedy reply and information! Yes, it's the blue one and indeed it does look quite lovely. I've had 505s (and a couple Citroën DSs) here in the US and although my stable currently contains no French cars, I'm on the hunt and have always enjoyed the 504.

    It does appear that ER Classics is a massive operation and they said they also have a warehouse in New Jersey so apparently they must do a ton of export business to the US. I've been negotiating with them on the price and have them around the €15,000 point which, based on other 504s I'm seeing for sale in Europe, is still on the upper end of the price scale but this car seems to be pretty nice and is a V6 as opposed to the more common four cylinder.

    As for the three business day timeframe in which to complete the sale, I agree it's a tight timeline but I've been speaking with them about the car since the beginning of December and it was at that point which they offered the free storage if I did the deal before the end of 2017 but this whole licensing thing is a bit difficult.

    By the way, Peter, are you by chance near ER Classics? I'd be happy to pay you to go see the car in person and to perhaps take it for a drive. There are engine pics on one of their ads, I did see them. I remember because the valve covers are red, like my Ferraris ;)

    Regards,
    Aaron
     
  4. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Apr 29, 2004
    10,601
    The Netherlands
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    Hi Aaron,

    I assume from your second post that you haven't had a PPI done. I don't have the time or knowledge to check out this car but maybe you could contact this classic Peugeot specialist which is located not too far from ER Classics:

    http://www.karelverhoevenpeugeot.nl/

    Best regards,

    Peter
     
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  5. 360Marnix

    360Marnix Karting

    Jan 4, 2017
    188
    Friesland, Holland
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  6. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,284
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    Aaron
    Thanks for the replies gentlemen. I'll have a look into the licensing agency requirements after the holiday and will also reach out to the Peugeot specialist near the dealer for advise on an inspection.

    Regards,
    Aaron
     
  7. Pav

    Pav Formula 3
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    Jan 18, 2006
    2,071
    Warsaw, Poland
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    Michal
    Hello Aaron,

    First of, congrats on the idea of buying a 504 coupe and shipping it to the US. Not many american enthousiasts take this path on niche cars. Second, two quick pieces of advice.
    1. If the car is cheaper than the average good looking V6 on the EU market, there might be an issue. ER classics are a huge dealership with quite big markups.
    2. The car has dutch registration - see if you can keep it on the car, and contact a company specialised in insurance for offshore residents. If not, you would need temporary license plates (all depends on the country).
     
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  8. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Michal,

    Many thanks for the reply and information. Now that we are past Christmas and New Years, I'll be back in touch with ER Classics to negotiate some more on the price and find out about the registration issues.

    As for the choice of car, haha, yes I have always had a bit of an eccentric collection...several Peugeots and a few Citroën DS among the Ferraris. My daily driver for a long time was a Peugeot 505 so I have a fondness for the lion ;)

    The car that ER Classics have does appear to be in very good condition and they are asking the higher end of price for it ($20K USD) so other than one obvious flaw in the paint in front of the left rear wheel, my eye doesn't pick anything out of the ordinary up, at least when looking at the photos. But as others here have suggested, a PPI will be a must, especially if we plan to tour France and Switzerland in it.

    I'll keep you guys posted on how I get on with everything. If I can keep the Dutch plates on the car then I'll only need to worry about insurance I presume. Also, what's the story with crossing borders by car nowadays in the EU? I assume no passport control between countries?

    Regards,
    Aaron
     
  9. 360Marnix

    360Marnix Karting

    Jan 4, 2017
    188
    Friesland, Holland
    Check if the cars has old Dutch blue license plates or the "modern" yellow ones.
    If they are blue: yeah!

    They can easy order an extra set of this plates. The do not come from the official authorities. Yellow ones do, blue ones don't.
    After that, they ask the transport authorities for new registration documents, because they lost they old ones.

    They get new documents, and go to the transport authorities with the plates and (new ) documents and tell that the car will be exported. The authorities keep the documents and the plates and the administrative export the car.

    But: you still have the old plates and registration papers. Once you crossed the Dutch border, nobody knows anything about this odd construction and you just drive with the old plates and documents.

    I exported quiet a few cars this way to France. Easy as that.

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  10. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Ahh, excellent information but how do I find out what type of plates the car has? It seems that the dealer has put their own plates on it for advertising purposes.


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  11. 360Marnix

    360Marnix Karting

    Jan 4, 2017
    188
    Friesland, Holland
    I think you can ask them :)

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  12. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Okay, I'll email them with that question. Hope they'll tell me!


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  13. 360Marnix

    360Marnix Karting

    Jan 4, 2017
    188
    Friesland, Holland
    I really hope so, fingers crossed

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  14. Pav

    Pav Formula 3
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    Jan 18, 2006
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    #14 Pav, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
    I had a MG exported from NL, they took away the plates and received a Car ID with a cut out corner - it was exported on a flatbed. Does NL have EXPORT registration for cars like Germany does?

    In any case, they are a big dealership, I believe they had to take care of the weirdest requests possible for their clients, therefore I believe they might even arrange at extra cost temporary german "red" plates that come with insurance if you ask them to do so. The good thing within the EU is, when you have a dealer license (even if you do not operate as a dealership) there are many possibilities to turn things around, I managed to get a 12-month insurance contract in one country on a car that had registration papers from another country, it is often a bit tricky and often a matter of time (several months sometimes to find a solution) but in most cases there is a way out.

    In regards to border crossing. It is EU everywhere, open borders, except for Switzerland, not a EU-member. When crossing the Swiss border, If the customs see you have temporary license plates they might ask you to pull over and will ask you a couple of questions about the car and its registration but as long as you are a tourist and have proof of ownership, you shouldn‘t have issues.

    Fantastic. Then you might also consider a CX Athena and a 605 2.0 Turbo, the first 605s fall into the 25 year old import rule now, and the CX is much older. I believe you might manage to get both of them for less than 25k USD incl shipping to the US. :)
     
  15. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,284
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    Aaron
    Michal,

    I almost bought a CX about a year or so ago. It was silver over black and had the top of the line alloy wheels on it--it really looked a stunner but someone beat me to it. The 605 is a big car, always thought the front end looked a bit odd so those have never really been on my radar.

    In any case, thanks for all of your help and information with this matter. It doesn't seem like ER Classics are willing to do much for me with regard to licensing and insuring the car as they keep using this "1:1 trade in" phrase so I feel like they're trying to tell me it's a literal "as-is, take it away and be gone" type of sale.

    Maybe better I find one from a private owner?
     
  16. 360Marnix

    360Marnix Karting

    Jan 4, 2017
    188
    Friesland, Holland
    www.terraeurope.nl is a 504 coupe specialist. "voorraad" means "stock"
    Maybe you find here something better with adequate help nu the owner himself.

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  17. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
    1,284
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    Thanks Michal, I shall have a peek now! This seems as if it would be a much smarter option and at least the car should be sorted out well enough that I wouldn't have to worry about a breakdown somewhere in France or Switzerland. I'll see if I can get google translate to help me on his webpage.
     
  18. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    10,014
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    Jimmie
    You might need to check on the possibilities for insurance before getting too excited - it will be required and almost invariably it requires residence to arrange locally
     
  19. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Yes, good point. I'm fairly certain that my coverage here in the US will be valid abroad but of course I'll make sure I verify this.


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  20. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    In the pictures there are yellow plates covered by the ER plates. Cut off date for blue plates is January 1978.
     
  21. bergxu

    bergxu Formula 3

    Aug 16, 2005
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    Ahh okay I see now after another look.
     

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