I'm curious to the process of being able to purchase / fly one. Any thoughts? http://www.jameslist.com/advert/165028/for-sale-other-l-39c Image Unavailable, Please Login
Probably the cheapest part of the ownership experience is the purchase price. A friend I know is taking lessons flying the L39 in anticipation of buying one. I think he travels to Chicago for each of those lessons.
http://www.classicjets.org/faq.html Pretty cool organization dedicated to supporting those who turn money into noise.
A little cheaper than F1 perhaps. Here is a school that offers an hour of L-39 training for approx. $1200 - $1500. http://www.warbirdsofdelaware.com/SalesServices/JetOrientation/tabid/96/Default.aspx
You are going to need a type rating and have a good amount of time in high performance aircraft before you are ever going to get signed off to fly one solo. Really the cost to purchase should be added to what it will cost to get the type rating, and that is the real cost of admission. Added to that is the time in type that will be required to get insurance. Assuming that you had a healthy log book worth of time in flying high performance airplanes you are still looking at a specific time in type that you will need before you can fly it. The training aircraft, such as the L39 are a lot easier to maintain than a real fighter, but it is true that the purchase of admission is a lot lower than the cost to maintain and keep airworthy such an aircraft. Still it is a jet with low bypass engines that are thirsty and the cost to maintain it is steep when compared to GA airplanes.
I have client with 5 different L-39's in his hangar beside his new Citation and Piaggio. There are also two ex-Romanian AF techs on his payroll to maintain the L-39's. He also has an IP (who is also my client) that he has to pay to come with him whenever he flies. It is going to cost him probably $750K to become type rated on the L-39 not counting maintenance and aircraft acquisition costs. He has a net worth in the low to mid 9 figure range. The FAA says you need 1,000 hours flying time and 500 as a PIC for the L-39........this place charges $2,150 an hour "all in" (IP, fuel, maintenance, etc)........ http://www.jetwarbird.com/L-39.html Of course you can pay to go up for a 30 minute fun flight as well. Prices on L-39's have really dropped and there are a lot of them for sale, albeit in varying configurations from $200K to $400K......from original condition needing the major overhaul to fully redone with glass cockpits, etc.
Is there something specific that you are wondering about? Because otherwise, GuyIncognito pretty much hit it on the head.
So for a privateer, buying the jet, getting the hours in, qualifying, it's a $1m proposition not to mention the enormous amount of personal time that must be dedicated to doing such a thing. Amazing.
Just to be clear, that's 1,000 TOTAL flying hours, and 500 TOTAL PIC hours-- those hours don't need to all be in an L-39. That said, the L-39, in spite of it's status as a trainer, isn't for beginners-- it has a dismal safety record.
OK thanks Don, the site was not exactly clear in that regard......@ 1,000 hours total time, I "still" can't afford it though.....heh.
I'm not even sure "Dismal" covers it I was intrigued by L-39s, but then I read the lengthy list of bad accidents and that dulled the shine a bit for me. Not to mention the fact that I have nowhere near a "low to mid 9 figure" net worth!!! If you think about it, there are far more capable prop-driven aircraft out there that are much cheaper to operate. Extras and Edges come to mind. Of course, I know it's a different experience entirely.
Thanks. Nothing further. I was curious to the feasibility, without personally considering it. My inquiry doesn't express my perspective on how humans treat the planet.
I always thought the T-38 Talon would be the jet to own. Love the look and several have been sold to private owners from foreign air forces. . Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
So to get the hours, do you have to do it in the US and through some place that is accredited to sign off that you did it? Could you go to another country where it would be cheaper by the hours (of course probably not as safe)? This hobby only seems to make sense for ex-military pilots that ended up starting a company to afford these toys and their thirst.
For those of you debating the L-39: a couple of points: Don't know where you got your safety information, but if properly maintained, this is a relatively safe fighter/trainer with no bad habits. (In the interest of full disclosure I have one at Pride Aircraft on the market after a couple of really fun years of flying, during which I averaged about 80 hours a year. I've got about 6,000 hours in single engine airplanes, but had no previous jet time when I got my type rating)) It cost me about $40,000 to get my type rating (at Pride) mainly because I did in one of their aircraft, before I bought mine. This included ground school. I chose to immerse myself in it, and pulled it off in a couple of 10 day stints, where I did nothing but fly and study, study and fly until I was ready for the test. I think I started around the new year of 2007, and was out of there in April, having bought an airplane from them at the same time. In retrospect I would have bought the plane first. Pride has two great instructors, one of whom is licensed to authorize the rating, so it's a one stop shop. Both of them are current airline co-pilots and Air Force combat veterans of the Gulf War. The only spooky part of the L-39 is that it can take between 10-12 seconds, depending on the engine, to spool up and regain takeoff power, in the event of something like a go around or missed approach. This is not a discovery you want to make on a low final approach that looks like it may be short. Besides this, most of the accidents for this aircraft occur because of poor maintenance, sloppy preflight (failure to close the nose "baggage doors" with subsequent engine ingestion of personal belongings has done it, as has failure to lock the canopies.) But this is a straight wing jet, built "hell for stout" for Russian kids with little experience to learn to fly fighters. The intakes are over the wing to minimize F.O.D., it has anti skid brakes, and many systems designed to prevent the beginner from doing something really stupid. After years of propeller "torque" it's a treat to fly an airplane that stalls straight ahead, and is really, really tough to spin. Stall is uneventful, if heavy on downward velocity once established. Roughly speaking, I used to figure on $35,000 for an annual, maybe $20,000 a year for unanticipated stuff besides that. Most problems usually boil down to fussy APU and/or engine start boxes (electrical components) Most of the moving parts and hydraulics are predictable and easy to inspect and maintain, although replacement parts can be a challenge. (Pride makes periodic trips to the Ukraine to stock their inventory) The "hydro-mechanical" engine fuel control system is a beautiful mass of stainless tubing and calibrated valves, and once tuned is essentially trouble free. My mechanic once commented that it reminded him of a better built version of the old Holley Carburetor. what can I say? It works! i used to figure fuel consumption for budgeting purposes at around 200 gallons per hour. TO is around 330 GPH, cruise is around 140-180 GPH, depending on altitude and power setting. (But you won't probably be using this to go anywhere - typical flight would be a 45 minute blast off, followed by some steep turns, practice stalls and slow flight. After you've burned off the tip tank fuel you can do some aerobatics and pull a few Gs. I used to get clearance from the Boston Center to enter the Yankee One MOA over Mt. Washington in New Hampshire, climb to 14,500. Then pick up airspeed to 350-375 knots with a descent down to 11,000, where you initiate a steep pullup for a loop. Gs are usually about 4.5 to 5, and initial climb in the loop can be a dizzying 14,000 FPM! The L-39 is not an F-15, though, and the loop is more a tear drop shape. At the top (17,500 and about 60-80 kts!) you're on your back, essentially falling down hill and accelerating like mad and pulling more Gs, until you find yourself at 11,000 feet again, going exactly 350 kts. Finish the day with a series of snappy aileron rolls and return to the airport with a military overhead approach at 200 Kts and a 60 degree break over the numbers to a tight short approach, landing at 120 Kts and "pasting" the touchdown point right where you intended. You'd better...because by now every pair of eyeballs at the airport is trained on you.....and they're greeeen with envy. Walter Mitty never did this in his pathetic life. Not once! So there you go. It's true, it isn't cheap, but this is actually a great airplane for a partnership, because you can't really use it to go anywhere. And you need a G.I.B. anyway, don't you? Fred Gevalt
Fred, Thanks for the write up. The cost to maintain and fly it isn't as bad as I had expected. I guess that it being designed as a trainer and being robust helps that. Very cool
Fred, Your 6,000 hours of previous flight experience makes quite a difference, versus my client initially having none at all when he got the bug, and starting with a single prop then working his way up from there. Just curious.....200 gallons per hour probably costs $600 an hour +/-.......so at a cost of $40K you got type rated after 66 hours of flight time ? FWIW I am not a pilot, I just find it rather low time benchmark. Here are some pics I took of his air force.......3 of the L-39's were on the ground at this time....... Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks for the highly detailed writeup! How does it work if you want to do more than a few aerobatic maneveurs? Do you ask for a clear "box"? Or how does that work?
