First time poster, be gentle here (CAR) BACK STORY: I found a 1982 Mondial 8 sitting on a used car lot here in town for only $10k. 72k miles, several owners, but has service records. As one would expect, it needs work. Everything needs work, inside and out. The current owner took it in for minor maintenance about 10 yrs ago, saw the laundry list, and has garaged it since. Before putting it on the lot, he ruined the exterior with a $200 paint job, but if you stand back about 100 feet and squint your eyes, it looks decent. I almost started crying when I saw they got overspray on the pony emblem in the rear. It drives, but it overheats (cooling fan doesn't kick on). I can't see any coolant in the oil, nor do I see any metal flecks, so I'm under the impression that the block is in decent shape. There are a myriad of electrical issues, but a search of these forums tells me that's to be expected. The engine idles smoothly despite the fact that some vacuum lines appear to be missing, and there's a crack in the intake boot. I took a short test drive and had quite a thrill seeing what the car is capable of (although I fell in love the first time I heard the engine), but once we had the car back at the lot, it would not restart. I'm hoping there is some sort of safety mechanism in action here, and it is not a seizing problem. (OWNER) BACK STORY: I've been wrenching as an amateur for about 10 yrs, and having owned a lemon or two, that means I've done a number of significant repair jobs: a complete cooling system + A/C upgrade on a GMC Jimmy, timing belt replacement on a Ford F150, various brake and suspension jobs, etc. The ace in my sleeve is my best friend. He's an auto mechanic (specializing in American cars unfortunately) who has a big block V8 where his heart should be. I'm working as an engineer and have a good chunk of change saved up - I'll be able to spend at least another $10k on the car to get her innards in shape. I'd prefer to do the work myself -- but I'm not too stupid that I'd insist a critical job be done in my backyard. As has been suggested in the buyer's guides, I'm starting with an inspection report (should be done in a few days) and will work issues as time and money permits. I'm not expecting to have a showroom-ready car in this. I mainly want to enjoy the Ferrari driving experience. Of course, I'd like to get the interior into the state where I wouldn't be ashamed of it, but I don't want to break the bank on items that won't improve the driving experience. MY QUESTION TO YOU: Having searched these forums for a couple days, it seems there are a lot of friendly Mondial / 3x8 owners who are willing to help suckers like me. I realize this is going to take a lot of time, being that I'll only have my weekends to work on the car. I just want a little piece of mind that, should I decide to bail on the project at some point, I won't take a complete financial loss. I'd like to consider this an investment as much as a hobby. What would you do in my situation?
My advice is that even the best car will have enough 'fine tuning' issues that will well occupy your spare time. The car you are describing, even with all of your time free, will be a money pit and never worth anything to anyone. You will end up hating the car and souring your Ferrari ownership experience. Sounds like a parts car at best. Buy a more decent example and enjoy tinkering rather than bringing back the dead.
Being gentle....the 72K miles is "used up" in the minds of most, so there is no "investment".. And while the engine no doubt makes sweet noises when running, shop a little more and see if you can come across a "less than perfect" earlier carbed car. Just my opinion..good luck though and much like you I fell in love with a black GT4 on a car lot LONG before I styarted buying 308GTBs.. The only other food for thought would be to seek out long term owners, they have "what it takes" to keep one up, the cars out on lots have been shuffled around and in my mind, each time deferred the proper care. 1982 was a low water mark for horsepower. A well tuned 1977 308GT4 would hand it a hard whuppin'!!!
The service records ARE a nice touch...... You can jumper the radiator fan by jamming a paper clip into the wiring loom socket....
I think its honorable when someone saves a car like this. Get it correctly priced then take it home and tinker with it for a year or so (with your spending money in hand). You end up with a neat car that you bonded with & restored. Good for you.
There was a member here not long ago "needing" to sell his mondial coupe blk/blk in mint shape for $16k 'cause he was moving to N.Y. from the Il. area. look in the ads section and you'll probably find it. If I had the extra $$$ I'd get it myself as a second F-car found it, it's the last ad in the v6-v8 section tho' the ad is closed you may be able to chase it down
I can feel your excitement. But you've probably heard the old rule before, buy the best you can afford. I've heard of high teens and low 20's for solid driving cars. It was sorted and a clean driver with virtually no electrical gremlins. It's an 87 with the larger 3.2 engine. I've put a couple thousand miles on mine with no issues until I found a broken CV boot. Upon pulling the axles, pitting was found in the joints. Doing some of the work myself a cracked boot has turned into about a $1K job. Below is the pic of the recent purchase slightly over 20K car. I'm a bit of a bleeding heart for any car project and I might be able to be pursuaded if it weren't for the respray. I think I'd avoid this car. Check craigslist for SF, LA, Orange county, Sac, etc. You'll see there are other options out there. In fact at cars.com there is an 88 Mondi cab with recent service for 26K. They are out there. On the other hand, if you can get this one for 5K and put no more than 5K into it and use it as a fun car I'd be ok, but with questionable paint it will never have value and a proper paint job can cost up to and well in excess of $10K if you want Ferrari quality. If I had to guess it would be 20 years before you'd get your money out of this car. If it was me and I could get it for 5K I try to get it driving, put on seat covers, do safety and minimum to get it reliable and use it for my own pleasure as a daily driver until it broke and repeat. Yeah, feel free to drop in here anytime with your ideas, hopes and Ferrari dreams. It's all good. Image Unavailable, Please Login
As a project, rather than an investment, it could be fun, although an expensive hobby. Somebody once told me when I was restoring an Alfa spyder that the hours you put in are the same (assuming you do a professional job) whether you are working on a car with a final value of $10K or $50K, so be careful what you sink your time into. I'm currently working on an '81 Mondial with the full realization that it's the "Rodney Dangerfield" of the Ferrari world. It's a labor of love, but I know I won't get out anywhere what I put in. I just consider it therapy. The hot start problem could be something as simple as a replacement fuel pump that doesn't have a check valve, which is what was wrong with mine. I also replaced the fuel accumulator, which was unnecessary, but inexpensive ... and as long as I was there... I have also repainted several cars and it can be done at home to professional standards, although extremely difficult without a downdraft spraybooth. You need to be committed to doing it right, with the right materials, glass and trim out - much disassembly, or pay the big bucks for someone else to take the time to do it right. I would consider spending a little more and getting a lower mileage car that someone else has already sunk a fortune into, then spend the time detailing, doing your own major service, etc. which will take plenty of time and money but generate more value. Just my opinion -Reid
It's a huge buyer's market right now, good deals on nice cars are NOT hard to find.....private seller, not a car lot trying to gouge your eyes out!!!
Nice, solid Mondial 8's can be bought for 20K or less. Even when you are all done, it is unlikely to be worth close to 20K. From your brief description, even if you got it free, you would likely be way under water and if you bail half way through, you will get very little for what is already done. Even if you can do all the mechanical work yourself, the parts prices will eat you alive and then paint and interior work will be very expensive. This is a parts car. If you would like a project, keep looking. Dave
What he said. I have been in this business a long time and that car is a money pit. At 10g's you will have more in it than it is worth by a long shot before you are done and that is only if you consider your time worthless. Pay 20, get a car you can use, put some TLC in it and be driving while you are doing it. You will be way, way ahead. Oh, and get a 4valve if you can.
It sounds like this is the car you are looking at. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1482345739.html If everything is rough, then you will be entering a bottomless pit for a less desireable vintage Mondial. There is currently another in the CA area that needs some work, but all the other stuff sounds pretty decent. Asking is a bit more, but still pretty cheap and a QV. http://losangeles.en.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/1486590873.html
I had a 1981 Mondial with the newer fuse panel. I had the same problem when I drove the car for more than 20 minutes. Shut the car off and you had to wait about 20 minutes to restart it it would not start, it was like it had a dead battery. There are several post. One is to install a remote starter switch. If the car is not getting fuel find the thread on how to bypass the fuse panel. I agree $5K-6K is all it is worth. Check for rust, Ferrari did not zinc coat the metal. It would be better to find a nice one for $20K good luck Charles
That nicer one, the '85 in L.A., find one that condition, stored inside... The electricals and mechanicals are enough of a fight, the paint and interior makes it a 'Two Front War' you'll never win!!!
See if the fan doesn't come on due to a faulty relay. If the relay fixes it Offer $7,000 for the car. Just drive and enjoy it for what it is and don't put any real money into it. Change the oil and coolant and put in new plugs and just drive it as long as you can. In some ways i envy this kind of car and think it'd be fun to not worry about evey nick and scrape. To have a Ferrari that you didn't worry about while parked outside the grocery store would be nice. OR Do yourself a favor and buy a well sorted/maintained mondial for $20,0000.
Based upon the description of the stuff you've worked on in the past, I think you'll be horriby shocked at Ferrari parts prices...and you're paying those prices whether it's a new 430 or a tired old Mondial 8 whenever you can't refurb something in the back garage. Even if there's no cost for your labor, and you skilled enough and happy enough to do the work yourself, parts alone (and paint) would likely put you upside down in this car pretty quickly. The owner might be really soft on the price however....you never know. So long as you're polite and personable, there's nothing wrong with making a lowish cash offer and see where it goes. I think the Mondial 8 is a very nice car - heck, it's a ferrari so it's got lots of appeal. But, like others have said, you're probably better off paying a bit more up front and getting a nice solid driver that's good on the eyes. It's a lot more fun to work on your car if you can take it out once in a while on a sunny day and actually drive it! Good luck!
Wow! What a responsive and thoughtful community I've stumbled upon! After doing a little more shopping and running some numbers, I realized I could get a lot more Ferrari for just a little more money. The "buy the best you can afford" advice is just what my mom gave me back in the day: "buy nice or buy twice!" I've since made offers on two other Mondials in much, much better shape. The time savings alone is worth the extra $$$. I don't care if I'm getting a "Rodney Dangerfield" (what, didn't you guys like his performance in "Caddyshack"?), the prospect of having a sports car that I can maintain myself is enough to sway me. Thanks for all the responses. If all goes smoothly, I could be posting pictures of my new used Ferrari before new year's eve!
If you're looking at this like a hobby... go for it. If you looking at this like it's some way to make a buck, forget it. If I were you... I'd find a beater 308 and work on that over a beater Mondial if you want a new hobby. Your entry price will be higher but in the end, you'll have something of a higher value also. Still, saving any Ferrari from the crusher is a noble cause.
Since you're looking at other Mondials, you owe it to yourself to have a look at the one Birdman is selling: http://birdmanferrari.com/mondial_for_sale.htm
It is likely worth $10k in parts, so it might not be a bad deal seen in that light. This should be a little wake up call as to just how expensive Ferrari parts are when that heap could have $10k of stuff in it. If it was a Civic it would be worth $1000 in parts. Yeah, about 10 to 1 is right. I think you are looking down the right path to spend $5k more now and save more and get more in the long run. This car will be a bad deal for anyone except for the unusual person who knows exactly what he is getting into. Someone like Ferrparts or TRutland (Fcar breakers), for instance. Or someone who knows not to dump cash into it and drive it until they can part it.
Don't forget to spend the money on a PPI by a reputable Ferrari tech. A few hundred dollars each, but if they find a 3K problem in a car, well worth it. And the cars don't have to have catastrophic electrical issues. The systems can be touchy and require maintenance but are serviceable. Look for one with the least issues. Keep us up to date on your looking, we live for this stuff. Also if you haven't done it yet, pour over the stickies at the top of this section. So much great info, I did the same before my purchase and it made me so much more knowledgeable.
+1 You'll put $30k into it to get it running properly, it still won't look very good, and no one will buy it from you for $20k. On a moral level, I commend anyone who wants to put a used and abused Ferrari back to life. From a practical standpoint (even less a financial one) this just doesn't make sense.
I cannot imagine it costing $30,000 to get it running. Between Ted Rutland's used parts and the new owner getting his hands dirty, it can be on the road again for far far less. There is not a lot to those cars really.
My moral compass may be a tad eschew, but I take a more darwinian approach. I think it is more noble to tear down these abused and hopeless Ferraris and get their parts into circulation to help with the ever dwindling supply of cosmetic and mechanical items for the well kept ones. Thanks to Ferraris refusal to support their older cars...In Ferrari land, only the strong survive
