Buying advices for F12 | FerrariChat

Buying advices for F12

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by 10oranges, May 5, 2024.

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  1. 10oranges

    10oranges Rookie

    May 5, 2024
    4
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Hello there, I'm new here. Owning a Ferrari has always been my dream and F12 has been my favorite modern Ferrari (and one I can afford). I am now seriously considering buying a used F12 as my first Ferrari, but I have some questions and need your help.

    1. Some manufacturers make minor adjustments and upgrades between yearly models, and I'm not sure if Ferrari does this. If so, which production year of the F12 is considered the best or any to avoid?

    2. What are some important options to have? For example, shift lights on the steering wheel.

    3.I know that some F12s have issues with the gearbox that can be costly to repair, so how many miles on an F12 should be considered too high?

    4. If you have any other advice, I would be happy to hear it!

    Also, I have two dumb questions:
    1. I've heard that the F12 can run less than 200 miles on a full tank. Is that true? I previously owned a V8 AMG which was terrible on fuel, but it was manageable. I know it's silly to consider fuel economy when buying a V12, but I'm still curious :p

    2. While looking at the used market, I noticed that the 488 is on the same bucket with F12. I've never owned a mid-engine car before, but I'm curious about your opinions. Would the 488 be a more sensible choice? (newer technology, higher efficiency, more fun driving experience)

    Thanks for your time, and I appreciate any feedback you can provide!
     
    NGooding likes this.
  2. F12HeartThrob

    F12HeartThrob Rookie

    Oct 22, 2021
    44
    AZ
    Full Name:
    Bobby L
    Welcome!

    1. I would definitely buy a 17' if you can, last year they made them. 16' is fine also. I believe there were slight changes to prevent common issues in the 15' model yr. Alternator upgrade, I think they also updated the wiring clips within the transaxle to mitigate some failures. There also seem to be less reports of vent corrosion on the later model yrs as well. I'm sure there are other changes that other members could comment on.

    2. Shift lights for sure, front axle lift, jbl, front and rear cams, lightweight forged alloy wheels and definitely racing seats imo.

    3. This doesn't seem to be a mileage issue. Most fail due to a seal leak or sensor failures. They make repair kits now.

    4. I would definitely have a ppi done by an independent shop or buy a ferrari certified car. Check for rear vent corrosion and leather shrinkage on dash/ doors as well.

    Don't think I've ever looked at the fuel info once other than to make sure it has at least half tank when I drive and don't drive it often enough to remember when the last time I fueled up. I'm sure it is heavily dependent on how you drive it though.

    Ferrari NA V12 > over everything especially a TTv8. Dont buy either car based on fuel efficiency. The tech is the same. I recently picked up a tecnica and prefer the F12, it's not even close.

    Goodluck with your purchase!
     
    forstephan, Kacper and NGooding like this.
  3. NGooding

    NGooding Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2021
    613
    Connecticut, USA
    Full Name:
    Nate
    I would drive the 488 and the F12 if you possibly can. Both are amazing cars, and who knows? The 488 might speak to you. I certainly love my F8.

    That said, @F12HeartThrob is right: you cannot beat a Ferrari V12. And I don't think you can fully appreciate it until you've owned one. They're magic.
     
    gliazzurri and Altoria F like this.
  4. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Karting

    Aug 31, 2022
    202
    USA
    I had a 2017 F12

    Fuel economy is as bad as you think. I got around 8 MPG in mine.
    Mine had 40K+ on the odometer before it got totaled. Check YouTube if bored or Copart you'll find it (hint youtube samcarac salvage auction). Car was fine at that high mileage. I tuned it with exhaust zero issues mechanically. Didn't enjoy sticky buttons, the heavy weight for handling, or the warm start gremlins that plague every F12.

    Good luck with your purchase decision. Owning a V12 at some point is well worth it. It's not a V8 super car (488 or equivalent from Lambo/McLaren) but it's got a charm. I moved on to a 720S. If you want scare the **** out of you and incredible handling dynamics that's an alternative but certainly isn't a cross shop with an F12.
     
    NGooding likes this.
  5. 10oranges

    10oranges Rookie

    May 5, 2024
    4
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Thanks for your reply, very informative.
     
  6. 10oranges

    10oranges Rookie

    May 5, 2024
    4
    Full Name:
    Chris
    It's a good idea, but I'm afraid that test driving these two will make it even harder for me. :p
     
    NGooding likes this.
  7. 10oranges

    10oranges Rookie

    May 5, 2024
    4
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Is it the gray F12 from the video released a month ago? I'm very sorry this happened, and I hope you're okay. Is the F12 a difficult car to handle? I remember Jeremy Clarkson saying that the F12 is a bit too powerful to enjoy.
     
  8. montegoblue

    montegoblue Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2009
    541
    East TN
    Buy a well-sorted car from a dealer w/ a Ferrari warranty and drive it quite a bit in the 2 years you get; most big items will manifest themselves….
     
  9. Agoln

    Agoln Rookie

    Jul 16, 2020
    5
    Indianapolis
    I just bought my first Ferrari, a 2015 F12. It's a dream!

    Put 1k miles on top of the 30k it had, road tripping it back. I actually got many more miles than I was expecting from highway miles, but the tank around 20 gal. I didn't check the exact mileage, but had to be more than 200 miles per tank.
    Very comfortable on long drives.
     
    forstephan, montegoblue and 3POINT8 like this.
  10. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,745
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Model year is irrelevant on the F12 including the grill issue. One can infer that there are so relatively few produced that no significant lessons learned can be done relative to a Porsche or Toyota that make millions. In fact, the only real lessons could be how to make them cheaper or faster as the production line matures.

    Any model year is superb. What you want in a used exotic is:
    • Spec
    • Condition
    • Documentation and servicing history
    • Mileage
    • Owner treatment and storage
    • Warranty
    • Price
    Do your homework. Read every review. Watch all the videos. Exhaust the F12/812 forum posts. Test drive to determine what seats you like and spec interests you. Get to know what common issues have been reported. Get an independent PPI. I would not purchase leased or prior commercial sales but that's just me. Sorry, but no rain vehicles for me and 2 owners max. Garage queen with some miles and uninterrupted dealer service since new. Addition fluid replacement a huge bonus.

    Make sure it comes with every issued item - (2) keys, covers for the car, seats, wheel, gloves, tools, manuals, security card, OEM tender, leather document case. Lots of little details. Have the battery replaced with aftermarket as condition of sale along with 2-year CPO warranty. Of course, no accidents. I would consider one with the grill issue done over one that has not been done. Have the 3rd light done as well. The alternator mod is good to have but many have not had an issue. Good luck.
     
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  11. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Karting

    Aug 31, 2022
    202
    USA
    Yes that was the car. The F12 is not difficult to handle. It was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time and thank a young girl who didn't understand the "right of way" and side swiped the car.

    With that said, it's not a difficult car to handle. You drive it gentle she'll behave. You start pushing it and it will playfully reward you back. Does it handle like a true sports car? No. It's a GT car. A really sporty GT car if that makes sense. The steering wheel is very twitchy if you haven't driven one before you should try it before you buy one. The steering ratio is very sensitive. Tiny inputs make big changes. I don't think the car brakes very good.

    As for others stating a warranty and whatnot, I drove it without a warranty and modified it (Ryft race pipe + Capristo X-Pipe + Mase Engineering Tune to not deal with a check engine light from no cats). The engine is literally bullet proof. The transmission for some can be an issue and that's about the only really expensive repair if stuff goes south. Otherwise just drive the car and enjoy it. Don't worry about the mileage. If any other specific questions let me know. I mostly lurk on here since I no longer have the car so PM me if I don't answer here.
     
    forstephan likes this.
  12. JJ77

    JJ77 Formula Junior

    Oct 3, 2020
    542
    Are you based in UK, as you refer to Jeremy Clarkson video. I too remember that episode live and thought, way hey that sounds a handful.. all I can say what was perceived as flaws back then, frantic steering, are now for me just spot on pleasures. I’ve had the after F12 Ferraris and came from SF90 with Assetto Fiorano, and now find the F12 steering and speed just perfect. Don’t worry about mpg, don’t go there, not the reason to not buy a V12 anything. I prefer a car with average 2000 miles pa serviced on the dot over any low mileage garage queen, these engines are better with use and miles on them. Prioritise a car with Ferrari Approved Warranty, doesnt cover everything like Porsche and Mclaren but peace of mind in the larger items, but as said before these engines are very reliable. With regard to what to be careful of, just don’t lean on the car on cold tyres, it will bite, just let them warm up, and there is a knack to driving it, it handles way better than it seems at first.. enjoy the process, a brilliant Ferrari, a fine wine.
     
    forstephan likes this.
  13. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2012
    1,718
    Bulgaria
    I don't consider the F12 as very gas thirsty car. And if you compare it with the 599, it almost doesn't consume any gas!

    As for the gearbox issues - these are notorious for the F12, California, FF, Lusso and so on... For some reason the front-engined cars suffer much more from gearbox problems compared to the rear-engined cars like the 458/488. I have absolutely no clue why is that. However, it has absolutely nothing in common with the mileage of the car. In a matter of fact, if the car has a higher mileage, probably it has already gone into some gearbox issues and they have been already fixed.

    The F12 is definitely not as easy to drive as a 458 or a 488, but if you are a good driver and you spend some time in it, so you can use to it, the car is actually very predictable and nice to drive fast.
     
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  14. forstephan

    forstephan Rookie

    Nov 9, 2007
    30
    Los Angeles
    Got my F12 about 4 years ago with 8000 miles , now over 20000 and very happy with it. More you drive it and happier the car is.
    For what I understand with my dealer cars that are driven often got less issues than garage queen.
    I don't plug it but use it once a week, New batterie Braille made a big difference and never had issue starting hot.
    This is an amazing and so capable but for sure very powerful .
     
    JJ77 likes this.
  15. Rabies

    Rabies Karting

    Apr 4, 2020
    155
    UK
    I bought a higher mileage 2014 car (17K miles), as I wanted to drive it and not pay the low-mileage premium, from an independent dealer but the car had (and still has) the Ferrari warranty.
    Bought it in 2020 and it now has over 40K miles. Not had problems with the rear grills (has been driven a lot in the rain) but needed the 3rd break light water leak fix, which was done under the warranty. Only major issues have been a bit random - failure of high pressure power steering hose and a strange noise from the rear axle which seems to have been fixed with a gearbox oil flush. Some small other items as well - brake pedal sensor etc. Remember these are low-volume cars so will have low-volume (ie random) issues. I agree with a lot of what has been said above but for my list I'd say:
    1) Buy a car with a dealer service history and the extended warranty intact
    2) Buy a higher mileage car that had done consistent mileage each year as they seem less likely to go wrong
    3) Buy a car with the best spec you can. Musts for me were front lift, front and rear cameras, forged wheels, Daytona seats.
    4) I would have liked the JBL too but the car with the spec I wanted did not have this so had an aftermarket job done. The standard speaker set-up is truly appalling
    5) If you want integrated Apple Car Play, you have to got for a late 2016 (I think) or 2017 model. Retro fitting is extremely difficult and expensive
    6) Don't worry about the number of previous owners - a number of them were bought and flipped to get into other cars (F12 TDF etc). Buy the car with the best spec and dealer history you can.
    7) Swap the battery for a new aftermarket one either as part of the sale or immediately afterwards - this seems to fix the lazy hot start issue for most. I would recommend a Duracell.
    8) On our long road trips (3,000 miles plus) I average between 16 and 17 mpg - so you can easily see 300-400 miles per tank if driven carefully. If you drive it hard in the mountains, you will be below 8 mpg - so yes, way less than 200 miles per tank.

    In short buy a good one and drive it - if you let it sit around, it is more likely to develop those annoying little (or big) faults.
     
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  16. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2012
    1,718
    Bulgaria
    Are you serious?
     
  17. Rabies

    Rabies Karting

    Apr 4, 2020
    155
    UK
    Yes - that was considered a higher mileage car in the UK when I bought it in 2020 as per my original post. Back then, low mileage was considered to be under 5K
     
  18. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2012
    1,718
    Bulgaria
    I honestly can not believe, that a normally thinking person can even consider 17 000 miles as high mileage. There are so many F12s that are already passing 60-70K miles, I wonder how they will call these cars then.

    Obviously the ugly side and the twisted reality of the weird Ferrari market has vanished the minds of a lot of people...

    Anyway, good for you, that you drive your car and enjoy it as you should.
     
  19. NGooding

    NGooding Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 5, 2021
    613
    Connecticut, USA
    Full Name:
    Nate
    Good, bad or indifferent, there aren't many of those around here.

    Hats off to the owners clocking that many miles though!
     
  20. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2012
    1,718
    Bulgaria
    Probably not so many and the reason is exactly that. People think they will not be able to sell the cars if they put a lot of miles on them.

    But there are a lot of 60,70K or more miles cars, they are just not for sale, as people just use them and enjoy them and don't want to sell them.

    It's strange how people are afraid of their car losing 50 000-60 000 USD or EUR of its value because of mileage and in the same way nobody spears such amount if they spec a car and spend money for options. Wrong priorities, I guess.
     
  21. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Karting

    Aug 31, 2022
    202
    USA
    This! I can afford the cars but I'm certainly not at the level that some of these people are at in the exotic car circle yet...despite that...they're afraid to lose anything on a car for the sake of the dollar. Meanwhile as I said above earlier I had 40,000 miles on my F12 and currently 23,000 miles on a McLaren 720S and previously bought a Gen 2 R8 V10 Plus with 1,900 miles on it and sold it at 36,000 miles. Life's too short. You can always make more money. You can't always make the experiences. I loved all the drives, the mundane errands, the back road spirited driving, the date night, ripping it down Sebring balls to the wall. I drove them resale be damned and when they're gone I don't wish I did more with them.

    The stereotype with the high mileage stems from the exotics of yesteryear's exotics of the 1970s 1980s 1990s and maybe a slither of the early 2000s. They were made like crap and fell apart. Anything modern from anyone whether it's Ferrari, Lamborghini, McLaren, etc. etc. etc. is reliable and built well enough to have the mileages rack up without incident.
     
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  22. JJ77

    JJ77 Formula Junior

    Oct 3, 2020
    542
    This + 100. Hallelujah
     
    ANOpax likes this.
  23. 3POINT8

    3POINT8 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2014
    4,479

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