Buying another Ferrari to get an SF90S?

Real weight (EU verified, includes all liquids, running order, 90% fuel and 75kg for driver) there is only 75kg difference - this is a publicly quoted verified weight. The SF90 also has more power and four wheel drive plus more modern electronics and chassis development. Very likely to be faster. And how can you claim there is no ‘soul’ in this car without driving it? Is that just your view about it because it is a hybrid? Frankly, it’s more ‘Ferrari’ than a non-hybrid at the moment; at least it represents their current race car format. That’s exactly the idea behind Enzo making cars in the first place - race tech in a road package. Call me picky but personally, I tend to feel what we accuse others of tends to apply to ourselves in some measure too.

 

Maybe, beyond the words of the journalists, there are others who are more objective.
75 kg louder than the LF in the real life...what a joke !!!
Hybrid system is 270 kg...

 

Didn’t quite get your point

 

LaF has been repeatedly weighed at around 1,585kg (Quattroroute did it at Fiorano, plus some owners have done the same on fchat threads getting similar weights) add the 75kg for driver gets you to 1,660kg EU verified weight with driver. According to the Euro mags (such as Quattroroute and Auto Motor and Sport) the SF90 under similar conditions is 1,735kg, so around 75kg difference. If the SF90 hybrid system weighs 270kg, are you saying that the LaF’s weighs nothing? And what about its V12 large capacity engine?

Let’s say they are all wrong by a bit, even at 100kg difference, do you think that is enough to make the SF90 slower, with its four wheel drive, extra power and higher torque, lower down?

Don’t worry, someone will do the comparison drag time on YouTube without a doubt, so we’ll no doubt see.

 

LF is much lighter and faster than SF 90. Opposite is just marketing.
And even if it was slower , compare a NA V12 to a TT hybrid V8 is to compare a Patek with a Seiko.

 

Absolutly ! while waiting have fun with the SF 90

 

Exactly. I have an order and as long as it’s a hoot to drive- I’m in. If it lacks excitement and connection than the naysayers will be right. At this stage- we know they are in the dark and full of it until the car can be driven.

BTW- virtually all turbocharged cars with particulate filters are at a disadvantage. The Pista is known for lacking steering feel, slower, a derivative of a 488 and over $400k. It quite unlikely this won’t be a win/ hit for another $100k as a unique model that’s also the fastest regular production (including hyper cars) Ferrari ever made.

 

Pista lacking steering feel? Get an alignment.

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Alignment won’t change anything. The 458, 488 and Pista have poor steering feel. Ferrari finally fixed it in the F8.

 

Right. This we will not agree on. Moving on.

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That’s fine. I drive both Ferrari’s and Porsche’s. Generally, Porsche’s have better steering feel. I love both my 458 and F12 and the steering feel isn’t close to my GT3 and numerous other Porsche’s I have owned. The 488 and Pista are similar (Pista is a great performer). And- The F8‘s steering feel is noticeably better. IMO.

 

That's fair. Same sort of thing here. I actually prefer the steering feel of the GT4 to anything. But after changing the alignment on the 488 and Pista, they both feel better than the F8 does to me, and even better than the stock GT3RS settings. I'd be happy to share my specs if you want to compare what you run. Shoot me a PM if so

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I still love the feel of my 2011GT3RS on a mountain twisty road better than any other car. Although the CS is a little more dangerously fun.

 

SF90 is just another production car with production depreciation, etc. LaF is a numbered CF hypercar with an NA V12 monster engine. Opposite ends of the universe.

 

Saw something similar here

 

LAF performance at a fraction of the price. Cars depreciate. If one compares this car to the rest of Ferrari’s current line up- it’s a bargain. And most if not all will depreciate.

 

Most cars depreciate (if you sell) but in five years an SF90 might not be able to pay the tax on an LaF. These cars should not be compared.

 

I saw that but his specs does not compute - unless you like a VERY heavy and slow response. He also states that the Pista comes with -2 degrees of toe on the rear, and that is just not true. So exactly what he is doing and how they have measured things, I don't know. I definitely would not run his toe alignment that's for sure.

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And maybe just the opposite. You are just projecting your negative views. Maybe everyone will pan the car making it rare and then far more valuable.

At this stage we do not have enough information to make such predictions accurately.

 

I am just participating with my experience. I have no horse in this fight. If you have one on order that's a really great thing. A new Ferrari is what life is about if you are an enthusiast. But being offered an LaF is up there with Enzo, F50, etc. SF90 is the new flagship production car and with it all that entails for that segment. Thinking it may ever be more valuable than an LaF is just not rational.

 

No one said the SF90 would be worth more than a LAF.

 

Sf90 should be faster than 918. 918 was faster than LaF even weighing a lot more. 1+1...

 

Not really. The SF90 might launch better than the LF, due to AWD, but at higher speeds it should be the other way around. The LF is not an SF90 competitor though.

 

Time will tell. I have spoken to a tech whom have seen an SF90 on the scales. It was around 1700 with 3/4 tank of fuel and no driver. It was not an AF car, but it had racing seats and the optional alloy wheels. I've asked a few techs at this point, and all of them look baffled when I say some claim nearly 1900. They know it will be put on the scales and that the car is on its way, so they gain little by not telling the truth.

The whole debate about soul is silly. What determines whether it has soul or not, is us. It is an inanimate object after all. How you as a driver or passenger connects with the car, determines its level of "soul". On top of that, I am quite sure the men and women involved with its creation, would take serious offense if one were to tell them that they had not invested themselves in the car. Who is to say that the team behind this, was less dedicated to creating the best experience they possibly could? Quite frankly, I think that is a very arrogant and odd assumption.


To me, the whole thing about it being soulless and devoid of passion, is just way too "grumpy old man" for it to have real merrit. There is a difference between having a personal opinion and categorically claim that it is a car with no emotion. Times change and so does cars. There are things to be enjoyed in new cars the old stuff cannot offer. Of course there are similar points to make about the joys of classic motoring. Some of it is great, and some of it, well, is just a pain in the a$$ .

To me driving is the main thing. I don't go down the road thinking about specs and stats. I try to sense the car and what it does. I have driven 1100 kg cars that felt heavy, and I have driven 1500 kg cars that felt light. Let's see what the car has in store for us once they start to show up.

For those who don't have one on order, or don't get behind the wheel of one, you will just have to take the word on face value for those who do when it comes to how the car feels.

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On a purely technical issue on the weight, I flew my SF90 to the US. The shipper weighed it at 1670 kg. This was with all fluids but no gas. It is not an AF car, has JBL hifi, leather, and lifter. It has racing seats and allow wheels like the car described above (not carbon fiber).

3/4 of a tank should add roughly ~45 kg.

So that totals to 1715 kg and then you can could subtract the JBL, leather, lifter weights. I am not sure of these weights. And my car is not AF. With all fluids, no gas going into PDI.

Given that the shipper’s interest was to charge per the kg, @Il Co-Pilota quoted SF90 weight number sounds on target.

Also, as an additional datapoint, my Pista came in at at 1385 kg.