C5 v C6 Z06

Well one is stock with wheel and the other has a body kit. Of course the C6 in this comparison is going to be the head turner. With the money put into the C6 shown you could get two C5Z's!

 

3. It's a ZR1.

 

Nonetheless, thousands of C5 owners have been left stranded by the multiple failure modes of the column lock system (sometimes even with aftermarket bypass kits installed). It's been a headache for a lot of people.

I'm not arguing that one shouldn't buy a C5 because of this, but I am pushing back against the suggestion that the C6 is more susceptible to failure of fragile electronic systems. After receiving a government waiver, GM tossed the column lock entirely starting in model year 2006 and didn't replace it with anything, so in this respect the C6 is the simpler and more reliable car.

 

The car pictured is not a ZR1.

 

I never said anything about failures in the C6. And you have extremely over exaggerated the number of people that have experienced the column lock issue. There are ways to defeat it in a parking lot without calling a tow truck. IF it was as bad as you describe then the C5 line would not have been as big of a success as it was. To say the C6 is simpler and more reliable than the C5 is not true. And you forgot about the first year of the C6Z having the roofs fly off. So many that there was a recall. Then loose valves and worn valve guides causing motors to blow. There's another C6Z success story.

 

A nice track worthy C6Z w all the bells & whistles will go closer to $50+

$30k maybe for a stock road C6Z

 

I put the failure rate in the "thousands," which is almost certainly correct. By his own estimate Paul Koerner has serviced 400 C5s for column lock issues. That's one single mechanic.

Two points:

1. What does that have to do with electronics reliability? You seem to be interested in scoring points in favor of one car and against another. I'm just trying to provide useful information to the OP, including both the good and the bad about both cars.

2. I didn't forget about the roofs. However, every single one was recalled, and the replacement SMC roofs don't delaminate. So the problem was completely and permanently solved, and therefore not really a point of comparison for someone deciding between a C5 and C6 in 2015.

I mentioned that in my first post in this thread. Along with a remark about the fussy C6 Z06 brake pads and the excessive width of the car, in case you still think I'm some sort of C6 Z06 partisan.

I have no interest engaging in a flame war about this.

 

It's a C6 ZR1 with SuperVettes Ultra Wide body ZR6X body kit I believe.

Here is another pic from the side so you can see the ZR1 side vents more easily. You can also see the Zr1 gurney flap.

Could be wrong though.
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That is not a ZR1. It was a Z06 they modified. The entire body including the front fenders are wider. Those are not stock. Even the hood is not stock and the roof is not carbon fiber like the ZR1. And the brakes are not ZR1 but Z06 types. Not sure how this figures into the original post of which car to drive on the street and take to the track anyway.

As for the column lock you have to admit that the majority of people had the fix done without ever experiencing issues. Who is to say they would have if they hadn't. No flame war here but will push back on the C6 too as you mentioned. Its record in SCCA does not compare to the C5. I do believe that is a fact.

 

The closest to 2012 SCCA T1 rules (spoken about above) is SCCA T2 today running with smaller tires, 350lbs+ ballast, (3450lbsmin) and small 55mm restrictor. Even with that the C5 is competitive with today's Mustang, BMW and Porsche on the track in T2 class. A very tired C5Z chassis raced by my friend lost the 2014 National Championship Runoffs last year by 0.047 secs to a fully optimized very well funded porsche. In the same race in a not fully optimized C5Z on stock shocks I charged through the field making up 6 places netting the "hard charger" award. The C5 is still a very very good chassis.

The C6Z is really not comparable. It is really an order of magnitude more car. There is no question the C6Z is faster on all metrics.

 

Once calipers send the ABS a pulsing then that is all you need and you will not stop any faster with bigger brakes or better calipers. The limit is the tire friction. That said the heat capacity of the brakes speak to durability, longevity, consistency, reliability all weak points when C5's are raced. We T1 racers cracked the stock rotors on the 3rd trackday and wore out the race pads in a weekend with nasty pad taper. We would waste about 1/3 pad thickness because of taper. This would additionally stress the calipers and we bent them causing annual caliper changes. 99% of Trackday people did not do this but we did. Finally, we were allowed 4 piston calipers as a safety feature not a performance enhancer. But it is a defacto performance enchancer because we could have repeatable braking with controllable modulation all they way to the pad backing plates. The C6 paddlets were a good idea to reduce pad taper just like a multi piston caliper. Racers and trackdayers do fine on stock C6Z caliper by using solid one piece pads instead of the expensive paddlets. Then the consumable cost of the C6Z brakes is like any other. On either car a simple big brake change to stoptech or brembo is a simple bolt on and will solve all brake problems with higher initial cost about $3000 but lower repeat costs. My C5Z was the development car for Stoptech's T1 race kit and I have never replaced the rear rotors, replace front rotors every 2-3 years, and replace front pads once a year and replace rear pads once every 2-3 years. My C5Z is currently on a Nationwide tour racing SCCA Majors races at cool tracks around the country. For spares I brought an oil filter and 1 set of front brakepads. That is how reliable a C5Z can be.

 

Love the c5 z06 after 2001. Still no question the c6 z06 would be the corvette to buy.
Shop over at Home - Corvetteforum and best of luck.

Figure 40 grand for the c6 z06 and you should get a nice example to drive and enjoy.

30 grand is way to low unless you want a salvage title.

The c6 z51 ls3 will out perform a c5 z06 and the roof comes off for top off motoring.

Still the c5 z06 after 2001 that comes with 405 hp and weighs in under 3100 pounds is a fun race car like driving experience for half the price of a c6 z06 of around the same mileage.

I wouldn't be afraid of mileage as gm validates these cars for 300k miles...I'm at 88k on my 2008 c6 z51 and it's been the best most reliable car I ve owned in almost 40 years..

I suggest the c6 z06 over the c5 z06 as the performance stock to stock is off the charts.

I'd pass on heads and cam cars...the valve springs on cammed cars-require service very 15 k miles and it's not worth the headache. Don't ask how I know about cam swap with dual valve springs problems on a c5 z06 putting out around 500 hp. Don't do it and plan to use the car as a daily with acceptable reliability.

Stock with an air box and tune is all I'd shop for at most..if not all stock. The utter reliability and low maintaince is a great feature to enjoy.

 

Why aren't you considering the C6 Z51? That's the counterpart to the C5 Z06. The C6 Z06 is a whole other animal.

 

Given your description of need and having owned both a c5 z06 and a c6 ls3 m6 z51 my suggestion is to pick up a c6 z51. It's the better car to purchase and has the same track capability as the c5 z06.

Do NOT buy a c5 prior to 2002 as there is a bcm or abs part that is no longer available and should a pre 2002 corvette have a faulty part ...there is no replacement and you will forever have an abs not working light on the dash. So from a safety standpoint buy a corvette newer than 2001.

The ride, interior noise, safety, brakes and clutch are improved in the c6 over the c5. The c6 is just the better and more contemporary vehicle. I loved my c5 z06 yet I still recommend the c6 z51 for you. As far as c6 z06 versus c5 z06.....no comparison..

The c6 z06 is a super car in comparison and well worth the extra money over the c5 z06.

Like I mentioned based off your description of how you are going to use the vehicle. C6 z51 would be my suggestion. 2006, 2007 are 400 hp models and are priced lower than or the same as c5 z06 s yet are the better vehicle.

The 2008 ls3 z51 has 436 hp and 424 lb/ft of torque. There are many examples of low mileage z51 s running from 26 to 30 grand tops..

My 2008 c6 z51 m6 with npp exhaust has 88 k trouble free miles...and mine is considered extremely high miles..it's been great. Totally reliable. I enjoy the roof off motoring all spring summer and fall. I'm 56 by the way.

I put in a dsv d shaped beautiful leather steering wheel. A MGM short throw shifter and the HUD..

At 50k miles I put in new brakes and blisten shocks just because I wanted to. Other than a new battery every 27 months...and an oil change and tires this has been a totally trouble free sports car ...that tears to 60 mph in four flat....pulls 1.0 lateral g s...and reportedly tops out at 190 mph...gets 27 mpg on the highway to boot..

The c6 z06 is much stronger but figure another 15 to 20 grand....and the roof doesn't come off.

If you prefer the wide body look of the c6 z06...I'd suggest a 2010 manual grand sport that comes with the ls3.

If you have any other questions feel free to either pm me your phone number or just ask on this thread.

All of this is just my opinion. Btw I do a corvette weekly podcast with the corvette mechanic who is a friend for 15 years....we just do it for fun. He on ther hand does Carlisle, bowling green and mid America seminars.

Check out the corvette forum c6 for sale section and realize there is always room to negotiate a little.

 

Dale,

C5Z06 400hp trackworthy with +1qt oil can run all day at 8/10ths with no more brakes or coolers than stock.

C6LS2 +Z51 suspension package 400hp = to C5Z06 on track similar reliability. Tomato or To ma to? But I give the edge to the C5Z06 and it's LS6 motor no longer available as a crate from GM

C6LS3 +Z51 suspension package 435hp faster than predecessor but blew up motors on track with DOT race tires and 10/10ths racing. It might be OK at 8/10ths on street tires

iirc chevy deleted Z51 from C6LS3 when gransport came to avoid engine blow ups. By 2008 OBD2 protocol changed to current version and newest greatest data toy the Aim solo DL can read and plug into OBD2 port and data can be embeded into video.


C6LS3 grandsport is the C6LS3 + Z51 + C6Z06 drysump oiling This stopped engines from blowing up on track but it was so expensive racers just bought regular C6 and added the aftermarket drysump. Besides we invented the drysump for that car anyway since we were 1st to blow them up.

A6 paddle shift gearboxes overheat on track if run hard and can be programed in the aftermarket to shift near 360 ferrari speeds. No one has taken the time to add more coolers and develop the A6 box for racing.

C6Z05 500HP much faster in all metrics. Somewhere in model line had some valve train issues solved in the aftermarket. Can be made bullet proof. manual gearbox only

C6ZR1 630HP much faster still runs too hot for a good trackcar having similar failings as the C7Z06 on track.

Each model gets more expensive and got better in terms of comfort driveablity, useability and safety (with safety offset by each models increased performance envelope).

 

The C6 Z51 has stiffer sway bars and such over the base. It is more heavy duty if you wish. However, to say it is the performance equivalent of the C5Z is close but no cigar. Go over to the Corvette Forum and look at the C6 Tech section which has a whole section devoted to performance numbers. There is not a single LS3 C6 Z51 that beats the top 5 in the C5Z performance section.

Now back to your actual questions, one is not safer than the other. I promise you the C5Z is a better track car stock for stock. It communicates to you in a way the C6 has been neutered. Many threads over on CF back in the day about steering feedback which is all the rage with Porsches. The C5Z communicates. Tell you what, I will let you drive mine if your near my local and see for yourself. I have owned Corvettes for almost 20yrs between C4's (including ZR1) and C5's. There is a reason I did not get a C6 and why the mags called it C5.5 instead. Aside from the body and electronics it is really a C5 underneath.

 

C5 is great. But the best driving Vette to me so far is a 2011 C6 Z Carbon. You should really try one out.

 

Just to add to what others have written: the C6 came in seven models: the Coupe (all years), Convertible (all years), Z06 (2006-2013), ZR1 (2009-2013), Grand Sport Coupe (2010-2013), Grand Sport Convertible (2010-2013), and 427 Convertible (2013).

Coupes and Convertibles have the regular body. All the other models have the so-called "wide body" with fender flares.

The Z06 and ZR1 have an aluminum chassis. All the other models have a steel chassis.

Early Coupes and Convertibles (2005-2007) have the 6.0L LS2 engine. All subsequent Coupes and Convertibles and all Grand Sport Coupes and Grand Sport Convertibles have the 6.2L LS3.

The Z06 and 427 Convertible have the 7.0L LS7 engine. The ZR1 has the 6.2L supercharged LS9.

Z51 is the option code for the sport package available on Coupes and Convertibles from 2005-2009. It consists of stiffer suspension, some extra coolers, and different gear ratios.

Z51 was no longer available on Coupes and Convertibles when the Grand Sports were introduced. The Grand Sports were essentially the replacements for the Z51-equipped Coupe and Convertible.

 

I like what the Carbon edition stood for and represents. IF I were going to buy a C6 it would be a ZR1 in that I already have a car for the track.

 

Dale said he is not tracking the car. I was answering dales question.

I've owned both a c5 z06 and a c6 z51 m6 with the ls3.

At 56 years this year I can relate to Dales perspective, his questions and offered my insights.

I'd suggest the ls3 z51 m6 is the performance equal if not superior to the c5 z06....it's that close...

For Dales mission as he stated I feel the c6 z51 m6 is the best choice. Should he state he wanted the best performance for the road and track....no question to get the c6 z06 for under 40 grand....give or take a few grand...

There is a silver 37 k mile 2007 c6 z06 for 37 grand for sale today on the corvette forum. That's a pretty good deal and pretty representative of today's market.

2008 c6 z51 s m6 with npp (gm exhaust with valves) run around 24 to 28 grand with similar miles...

Top speed 190 mph if that matters...where the c6 z06 tops out at 199 mph...if this even matters..

If you definitely don't want roof off motoring then the z06 would be my recommendation as long as the extra 10 to 15 grand in purchase price is not an issue. (For nice examples etc)

I love roof off motoring around the mountain roads on the way to horseback riding so for me...the z06 is not my preference....meanwhile when I had a c5 z06 for 6 years I never cared or wanted a lift off roof..now with the c6 z51 targa I don't want to live without that capability..

I love driving with the a/c on and the roof off all spring summer and fall..

The fragility of the c5 z06 , c6 z51 ls2 or LS3 or c6 z06 mentioned in my opinion is more interweb chatter percentage wise....but remember I do the corvette mechanic podcast every week with my cohost Paul koerner and Rob Haggard.

Take my suggestions and insights with a grain of salt...

I loved my c5 z06 and in some ways miss that raw race car like driving experience...but remember I had a cam , headers, 3.73 rear getrag gears installed along with a multitude of other mods etc...

I really think the near stock c6 z51 m6 with npp is the better car for Dale to consider..(not that I'm selling my car but rather commenting on my personal preference based off dales desires for his car.

Racing on a track? With mods? Or without..I'd probably agree the c5 will ever so slightly edge out a stock c6 z51 ever so slightly but on the road....the flip side of preference is much larger ...and the price of the two are very close..

Want the best performing of the three....the c6 z06 is king..

Want the best compromise for dales description of needs? I'd suggest c6 as the better choice..

Sorry for the Indepth communication on the process..

 

I would bet that someone somewhere will make this part, or you can retrofit something
from a totally different car, such as some Ferraris (obviously) use parts from Fiats, and
there are parts off of Toyotas and Chevys that work on some 80's Ferraris.

 

Hi JB,
Just stopped in and read this. There you go throwing out your age as knowledge. I hope to be as knowledgeable as you when I am your age. Otherwise, having owned C4ZR1 and C5Z06 and other vettes continuously since 1997 I think I know the mark well. Congrats on your podcast too.

 

Just trying to help a few guys out...please buy what you see fit and accept my apologies if I went on a bit long..

Enjoy.