C8 Z06

Wouldn't gm have to go through all the hoops to epa certify a new tt? That is massive undertaking for car with very limited life span. They are more likely invest in upgraded electric aspect which can then be used multiple models forever.

Interviews I heard with lt6 engineers made it sound like took miracle to get it approved and nothing like it to happen again.

Only guesses on my part, obviously

 

I think they overshot the price on the e-Ray. I would have been a good contender for the traditional mid-grade Grand Sport. I was hoping for the Z06 body priced somewhere between the SR and Z06. Instead we have the e-Ray which is priced almost on par with the Z06. Sure you get some Z07 options, but in none of my builds across the C8 platforms did I plan on CCB's or any other Z07 package items for that matter so it's not a net gain. If anything maybe a net negative for having more expensive brakes as the only option. The biggest appeal it has right now is the assumption that it will be more attainable than a Z06.

On a separate note I'm in line for MSRP Z06 with a local dealer, but they may never get to me as they rarely get allocations. Who do you all recommend going with that will have the quickest turnaround. I know the big three are the safest route, but I'm assuming a three year wait. Any other options, preferably closer to Texas?

What do you all think the wait time for an e-ray will be? I have to assume these will be built quicker and have less demand than a Z06?

 

Every powertrain needs certification. These days its not rocket science or prohibitive.
Its worth it for porche for 2000 Gt3s.

 

I think the e-rey may have equal or greater demand than the z06. Functionally the only added tech bit there over the stingrey is the electrics, which I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) is something not really limited to produce. That might indicate that they can make a lot more e-reys a lot faster than z06's.

Now lest look at what the E-rey is and is likely to do. It will accelerate from a standstill faster than the z06 for sure, it has more Tq and 4 driven wheels. The power will also come on effortlessly in a way it wont in the z06. That's due both to the instant electric Tq, and the nature of the v8 in the erey which is all about low end and midrange tq. So if you're driving on the road probably at any speed below 100ph and mash the pedal the erey is going to respond quicker and more effortlessly. On the z06 to get max go its going to be a function of downshifting and getting the revs up.

the z06 powerplant may have adequate Tq for street driving, but its nature as with a 458 or mustang Gt350 or Gt3 is to make the real power at higher revs, great on track where youre keeping the revs up and shifting at redline all the time. less so on street.
The E-rey is likely to ride a bit better than the z06, and in general be more useable, faster and quicker responding. The difference in "cornering" ability will be a complete non issue on any road, and it has the awd ability in inclement weather. Unless you're a regular track person what you're losing in the E-rey is the z06 high rev sound. Ill even bet that for most causal De events with most drivers the e-rey will be faster on track due to awd.

CCBs to me are a waste for track, so its a net negative they're mandatory on the z07. For street I guess theyre bling and you dont have brake dust to contend with.
I think people are going to be really impressed with what the e rey is and what it can do, but it wont have the same sound as the z06. Put another way, on street up to 100mph Ill bet the e-rey can slaughter a regular z06. Horses for courses.

As for wait, as youre looking for a road car, id say get on a E-rey list now, buy whichever one comes in first e-rey or z06.

 

my guess is, looong term, the Z06 will hold it's value (if not greatly appreciate) more than the Eray. Electronics (batteries and systems) always become obsolete. Newer, better, lighter, etc.
Will a C8 Eray ever be 'updated' in 4 yrs? Will there be an 'updated' C9 Eray? I think a C9 Eray would have a completely new system.

My point is the NA dohc Z06 will be a collector/keeper forEVER.

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^^^
Agree 100%

 

Collector collector collector.
Man does anybody buy these cars to drive the wheels off.
You know how long you have to keep a car like a vette for it to be collectable.

 

Alright...so I'm going to change my tune a little bit after hearing that engine some more on the Emilia video. I'm actually liking it....and she called out what I didn't realize I'd been picking up subconsciously. It does sound like that Batmobile motorcycle on Christopher Nolan's Batman movies, and it's growing on me quickly.

If I could only have one car it would be the Z06, but if I were to pull off keeping my F430, suddenly the E-Ray doesn't sound so bad.

 

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if the vette is a C8 Z06 that sells for $275,000 at Mecum ....... I'd say about a day. ...... Reality is, the car is too valuable (for most) to 'drive the wheels off'.

better to make a track car out of a wrecked Stingray.

.

 

that’s the jerkoff price now. Stingray too big and heavy for a serious track car, I have a real track car already. The idea is a z06 for driving to and on track on occasion, same as peolke do with gt3

in any event whats the point of keeping a car to sell as an investment in 20 or 30 years. It’s like people who have bucket lists. Spent their whole lives not living and the. They wnat to at age 70.
If you have the act drive it, if you have a fast track capable car use it. Once you’re gone you’re gone

all those new ferrari owners afraid to put miles on their cars poseurs to themselvs.

the poseurfocation of life, nuts. Not to mention corvettes are by definition mass produced and not so rare that they can’t be used, that’s the point.

 

You know what I think the issue is. The Corvette buyer market had typically been the blue collar worker that made it, at least that's my impression. Ferrari equivalent is the white collar professional that made it. In both cases, outside of the next level up of wealthy who can afford repairs and depreciation, the buyer has enough to enjoy the car, but maybe not drive the wheels off it. So owners baby them.

I think the current iteration of Corvette going to attract buyers from top brands that find with the cost savings, they no longer have to worry about putting the miles on. I expect there to be lots of high mileage C8s in the future.


Back to the pricing issue.... yesterday I priced out all three C8 iterations with the options I like... I really do think they overshot the price tag on the E-ray

• C8 SR, HTC, 2LZ, $86k with my choice of options
• C8 Eray, HTC, 2LZ, $115k, but realistically $121k if I add the same options.. + $35k
• C8 Z06, HTC, 2LZ, $133k with similar options as C8SR, +$12k over E-ray, + $47k over C8 SR

Aside from the wait time, the $12k increase for the Z06 to me is a no brainer. However, the $35k jump for hybrid and wide body is a tough sale. If the E-ray optioned out landed smack between the two, I'd be more likely to go E-ray. It's just too close to the Z06, and the Z06 is above and beyond anything out there across the price spectrum at it's current price point.

 

just wait till porsche starts charging $65k additional for the hybrid 911. makes the $35 reasonable esp since thats only way to get an awd vette. lots of awd porsches already

 

Good logic.

 

I would love to see what percentage of 911 sales the 4S is. It's gotta be real small. And yet Porsche continues to offer it. Does the awd Turbo model (same driveline architecture) keep it alive?
Is the awd Eray a 'test bed' for the awd Zora? Spreads out the development cost.

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I think Porsche gets lots awd in northeast, Midwest, etc. Has to be reason why mb new sl has it as it competes w 911. And new m3 too. Plenty people will want awd vette

 

Just read an article on the Mclaren Artura, plus today an F8 passed me on the street. The F8 was supposed to be the car that sounded good for a turbo, maclarens alwas just made noise to my ears and the artura is apparently a serial offender.

Whats amazing is whether you by a stock c8, and E-rey or a z06 all the vettes have good sound.

Reading the threads here, it seems for many the appeal of the z06 is sound more than any other single factor.

Yet the Euros who invented the exotic game seem to have lost the plot there almost entirely. The MC20 is Ok, the Artura vapid, the 296 lets say nice, the hurrucan is about to go by bye. Its pretty much all team vette if you want that sound.

On of the things I really dislike on my Gulia, that vapid sound esp at idle, its like they tried to make it sound like a diesel. Then lets talk tubos. Say wjhat one will about the sheer amount of hp a turbo makes, and grunt, they just dont respond the same, as in like now. Each spring when I break out my e46 m3 i marvel at the throttle response.

I guess maybe the 296 has no lag due the electrics, maybe thats the answer.

Zora TTv8 with electrics, zowza.

 

Not really a direct comparison as a 4s is the same powerplant as a regular carerra.
The e-rey is also a massive performance jump over the stingrey.
In the past the 4s got the widebody, today theyre all widebodies. I think in snowy climes the 4s sells well, porches like vettes can be used as a daily, awd just expands the range of seasons by 6 months.

When I lived in the North east, late fall through spring were in many ways the best driving months. Much lighter traffic, esp on backroads and with leaves off the trees one could see through the myriad corners.

On the erey i think the awd is just an additional benefit due to how they added the electrics. On the rumored Zora Ill guess that putting that electric power through he front wheels is almost a must as the rear tires can only absorb so much not to mention the transmission. Now computers can limit power in the first few gears, but that affects acceleration, so some power to the front wheels adds more 'performace" at these power levels than runnign it all throught he rear.

Stingray, that's boxer competitor.
z06 Gt3/458
e-rey NSX C4 GTR R8 Hurrican Porche Turbo
zr1 F8 296 Artura through 720, Gt2,MC20
Zora an American bugatti, over 1000hp for less than 1/10 the price.

Theyre covering a lot of bases here. Interesting to see which ones sell in what numbers, and how they evolve the options.

 

You nailed it here. IMO one of two things is happening.

1. The foreign exotics have lost the plot. Gear head buyers retreat, and those cars become luxury accessories that make money off ego and fashion. Basically the equivalent of a Chanel bag or something like that. The gear heads move to the remaining manufacturers and new legends are born.
2. The next generation of gear heads truly doesn't care about sound, or is programmed for the new stuff via their current culture media indoctrination. What we think is amazing and revolutionary in the C8, is really the C8 capturing everything the new "older generation" loved over the last twenty years and Corvette remains the aspirational car for middle to late aged men/women. Sort of genius in a way, to perfect all of the best loved car attributes of the last twenty years.

Having said that, I think it's number one. Because no matter what age, I remember being impressed by the sounds, and how vehicles made me feel. It's not just limited to cars. Motorcycles, airplanes... etc. We were out to dinner the other day, and this loud rumble approached from a distance. I tried to see what it was from the table I was at, but my son who is 6 that was running around in the green space a distance away stopped what he was doing, and walked to see what it was without me being near him or saying anything. Sound matters. BTW it was a late gen Viper, the sound was awesome.

 

Great post. Im a major fan of the last viper, amongst other attributes it looks great. The viper V10 was a Chrysler v8 with two extra cylinders in aluminum. Imo for the last gen they should have added another two cylinders and gone v12. a big pushrod v12, great sound endless Tq and smooth, that would really have been something. The viper never took off sales wise though because it was uncomfortable and unrefined compared to say a vette or a porche. in the end its mostly 60+ year olds who can afford these fast cars, and in general that group wants race car looks with Gt car comforts.

Yep sound and vibes. I once heard a motorcyclist say that the Ducati V twin had a cadence much like a mothers heart heard by the bay in the womb. Certainly a 4 cylinder motorcycle engine makes more power and is faster, yet ducati v twins, harley v twins and bmw boxer twins have a major following, sound and vibes.

i guess the issue with the vette is that its an aspirational car for late aged men and women, and therefore compromised in a number of ways. . That older person market is key, because to make things work you need volume, and thats the demographic where the volume can be found for an expensive 2 seater.
Miracle then we got the relatively youthful z06. Next lets get it to loose some middle aged flab and be lighter on its feet.

This got me thinking about the f40, Ill bet of the people who can afford one, even those who "collect" them, very few in that age demographic are physicaly able to drive one, or drive one in anger.

As I approach my 6th decade i wonder often enough how long I will be able to clamber in and out of my fully caged exige v6 track car and pound it round the track, not to mention trailer it there plus loading wheels tires tools etc. When my z06 comes will I be so seduced by its ease of ability and relative comfort that the Lotus gets put out to pasture even if vette laptimes are marginally slower. The answer is never stop and never give up, cause once you do there is no going back, but still I have a z06 coming and plan to use it as designed, will be interesting to experience the contrast.

 

My dealer has a 70th anniversary zo6 in carbon flash metallic on the showroom floor with a 149k sticker.

The car belongs to the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix and is a raffle prize. I bought some tickets for the hell of it - the drawing is in September.

The car's on their website if anyone's interested - no affiliation, just passing it along.

https://pvgp.org/z06-sweepstakes/

 

Finally some data, definitively faster than a Gt4Rs, at least on short course, (why would it be different on a longer course.)

https://www.roadandtrack.com/reviews/a42358903/2023-performance-car-of-the-year/

 

question i have from this data, is why is lambo so slow? technica and esp sto should be much faster based on power, weight, aero, tires yet they never beat porsche times, let alone z06

 

I didn't expect the lambo to beat the porche, the Lambo is an older platform and was never that quick. Later iterations got a lot faster and it has done some fast ring laptimes which is also a function of Hp on that track.

the Z06 beating a GT4Rs on a short track is really something though.

 

yes porsche always seems to beat vette but extra 175 hp and cup 2r is tough to beat. gt3 rs will demolish all lap times though

 

Yeah it will be interesting to see what the 4rs and z06 do on the same tires, also a a big track like the glen or virs, and how their laptimes hold up for multiple laps, or does the z06 just melt its soft rubber. My bet is ona bigger track the delta will be even more, and the thing that may hold the z06 back is its inability to sustain over multiple laps due to tires. But then camros at 4000lbs hold up, so maybe the z06 is just the current off the rack fast car, esp under 200k.

The 3Rs thats a completely different animal for any road car, the amount of active aero and resultant downforce makes it a different kettle of fish.

yes the Vette and 4rs have some aero but its pretty paltry. they advertise that the z07 makes 700 odd lbs at 180. Whats the downforce at 100 where you corner, 200lbs? Thats more stabilization aero than real high downforce, the z06 and 4rs are still fundementaly mechanical grip cars with a little aero enhancement.
As you know a primarily mechanical grip car and an strong aero grip car are really two completly different things, and for that matter different skills sets. Love what they did with the 3rs, but thats a whole other animal.