C8 Z06

Very well said. Finding the compromise between being a great "street" car (which is how the vast majority of Corvettes spend their lives) and a very good track car (which very few spend their lives as) is a trick and not easy to attain.
Reality is that the majority want all the niceties. Chevrolet learned their lesson with the last Z/28. It sounded like a great idea ("adding lighness") but no one was interested. GM made a great, reasonably priced, highly capable car and it turned out to be the answer to the question no one asked.

 

In my view, you're still trying to blur a line that's too significant to ignore.

CASE 1: You've got a "one lap wonder", not very different than a "three lap wonder". After 1~3 laps, the engine overheats ... or the brakes fade ... or the driveline batteries (they're here to stay, like it or not) run down. Many people would consider this car to be "non-trackable" (although there are a few, i'm sure, who don't mind a few cool-down or recharge laps after a few hot laps, who might still consider such a car to be "trackable").

CASE 2: A car that can run all day ... meaning, let's say, four 30-minute sessions ... with no brake fade, no overheating, no driveline batteries discharging. Fast lap times ALL DAY LONG. The price? Those Michelin Cup 2 tires need to be replaced after 1 day, instead of 2~3 days.

(and we haven't even begun to investigate nuanced pressure differences, camber settings, rotation needs etc etc that the new Z06 might need, compared to Porsche 911 GT3's that have been around ... and understood, and optimized ... for decades).

MY POINT: based on what we already know, this new Z06 is a far, FAR cry from something like a "one lap wonder". And we don't need to lump it in with the "one lap wonders" because one of the first owners in history was "only" able to get one FULL DAY of tracking before he needed to replace his Sport Cup 2 tires.

That's reasonable, right?

 

Lets focus on your case 2, because case 1 is not worth mentioning, although you raise an interesting point about batteries for another discussion.

No one is saying the z06 is a one lap wonder, but lets not to use your term blur lines here either, prior fast vettes in stock form along with maclarens and ferraris can run lets say 5 incredible laps, after that issues in maintaining pace creep in.
The standard, and imo the standard to which the vette aspires is the Gt series proche, those were also benchmark cars(along with a turbo and 458) for the z06 during development.

the reason why a Gt3 is standard is not because it can run the 5 fastsest laps(it cant) its because that car has been honed for the trackday, and to still work on road and be road useable, Id say a higher percentage of gt3s go the track than pretty much any other marque(except for and elige maybe). The Gt3 is also a valid comparison because it is in the performance bandwidth of the z06 while lesser cars like an elige are not. Gt3 as opposed to Gt3Rs(which is a different animal) are also fun and perfectly road useable. They have in that sense a dual use and dual personality and hit it imo perfectly..

We know from experience, (and as you allude) what a Gt3 can do and need when runnign full tilt for 2 days. To be specific this is what a 3200lbs car that can drive to the track 300 miles away, run for 2 days and need nothing not even tires and drive home. Its also available with iron rotors cause thats what works.Its perfectly useable and fun on road too.

Lets compare that to what we know about the z06 z07 so far. By your own words its quite possible the z07 will need tires after one day, thats $2500 in tires per day alone, not to mention the logistics of changing tires at the track. Then say what one will, those ceramic brakes are going to be at least 15k to replace, and according to speed phenon pads are 2500 which sounds oddly expensive(some say witht he right care ceramics last longer most say not). None of this cometary has anything to do with the mechanical reliability of the car which I'm talking as a given(although this was not always the case with prior gen vettes and its Gm, but I give the benefit of the doubt)

If a car eats its tires in 1 day it is not a trackable car in any practical or logistical sense, a car that maybe uses up $1500 worth of brakes in day is not a practical track useable car in any sense. Those are the very valid reasons why billionaires who can drive don't track their ferraris and have Gt3s or Gt2s..

ill go with what Billiybob said, vetets are laden with 100s of lbs worth of frippery, but are also swiss army knives of cars, so they are very modifyable to really work. One just needs to understand thats what it takes, and in that regard its not out the box Gt3 competitor. Nothign wrong with needing to modify cars within reason, shocks springs some other add ons if the rest is good..

What i and others(who post on the vette forum) would like to see is something where the line is drawn a little differently, as it is in say a gt3. We're not talking a track monster, or something as impractical/hard on road as a zl1 1le. The z06 can easily loose 300lbs and still be comfy for road, there's 70lbs alone in the elctric seats. The bushings in the front end, alluded to in the savage geese compro could be changed to monoballs as in the Gt3 getting rid of that squish and hesitancy, the car could be offered with more track appropriate brakes(which would also cost way less) Finally better aero even if the trunk is not so easy. Yeah we can and probably will do those thigs as mods, but it could easly come that way from the factory as an option .

Today insetead for an extra 20k you get the z07 which more or less has none of the above. Yes 90% of owners will never go near atrack, and of those that do few will really use the car. But this is the halo track corvette and some version of z06 should be offered thats really track useable out the box, cause thats what in theory z06 stands for.. We'll probably see that and better one day from the factory.

As things look now(and we dont really know) the way to go will be a regular z06, then spend 10k on AP brakes, do some springs and a shock reprogram, some bushings and in time there will probably be some real actually worked out aero offered. With ap racing brakes you can go to proper forged 18 inch wheels and probably run way less expensive better tires. BTW the brakes and wheels are already available cause clearly there is a market.The parts we cant work around are the weight, or even change seats in a modern due to airbags. Alternatively, spend 160k on az07, put the ceramics on the shelf and put iron on, and work with the slightly lesser calipers and weight.

its all a function of choices made, and Ill bet well see a more appropriate track spec in a few years or off the c9, too bad its not an option now, the parts are minimal..

nothing wrong with any of it, its just a function of knowing what this car is and is not. Some are maybe are upset by the commentary because their use is pretty much all road and they want to believe its the pinnacle regardless, or maybe its a patriotism thing(it is for me too) or maybe they're like harley owners and a vette is just the best.

Probably I understand this car wrong and need to think of it as a modifiable swiis army knife, not a honed package.

Now some will and have said a more focussed vette wont sell, as say the last z28 didnt. But the zl1 1lt is even a harder car has done apparently quite well. Maybe back then the world was not ready for a 75k camaro, and doing a camro with a different engine made little economic sense.
To me the better example was the c6 z06, they really tried with that car, it had balsa floors, magnesium subframes, a bespoke motor and came in at 3150 lbs. The vette customers prefered the "faster" heavier comfier zl1 which could turn a few laps quicker than the z06, cst elss to build and sold for more .

In the case of the c8z06 its the same motor regardless of version, so the volume is there from the road car customers. They were even smart witht he z07. its 90% a bling road package and many many want that. Whats missing imo is the real road and track package. Hopefully in time, well see a more track focused package, it wont sell as well, it will be an option package, the bist are really not expensive, and in time it will be the collectable one, as all the greats are.

Said it before and it bears repeating. GM was smart with this car. They made it comfy and luxe, bringing in the vette faithful, and exotic crossover buyers. Thats smart, cause this is a business. Ill bet there are some harder edged prototypes running about. As it is this car looks to me to be across between a Gt3 and Turbo porche with a better motor than either, ie like one of the great ferrari motors. So yes its a great car, one of the all time greats, possibly the great road car you can buy today short of a 3 mill t33, but as a drive to the track car, its not quite the Gt3 yet, even if it can turn a faster lap for a bit at great expense.

you may not think tires lasting for a day is a big deal, but if you're driving to a track for 2 days as many do, its critical. Aso $2k per day seems to be a rational limit regardless of wealth(unless youre racing).

Im not talking race cars here, rather drive to the track.

The progenitor of this breed was the 250 swb, and arguably followed by the GTo, both cars superlative on road and competitive on track. After that road and track cars diverged, we saw glimpses of what was possible in a road car in the carerra rs 2.7 of the earlry 70s, and then the world changed. Speed limits and traffic killed fast driving in most places. Fast cars to survive became more comfy and useable, so they looked and sounded the part but could simply be used in the flow of traffic. Ferrari when they made the 288 thought they wouldn't even be able to sell the mandated 200 as it was deemed tooo hard, they sold 1500 of the even harder f40.

Whats happened in the 2ks is were seeing a new genre of fast cars which trace their roots back to the 250 swb. Not race cars and not road cars. Rather road legal and road useable cars that really work on track. The reason is that its really only on track where you can fully exercise use and enjoy the performance of fast cars. There has also been an explosion of trackdays and private track clubs as a result. Its clearly a market, and in the 90s porche stared building Gt3s in volume to meet that demand. Others have dabbled in it here and there. Corvette aspires to that with the z06, and for a more limited budget the c5 and c6 with some mods were great at that. In some ways this typoe of car is betetr at selling/marketing than actual racing victories, hence the laptime debates/tests etc.

How close is the c8 z06 now, we don't know. We can see though that the line has so far been drawn near the middle between road and track, but on this side of comfort luxury as opposed to that side of focus. But its year 1 ver 1.0. ill mod mine to work better, but I wish I didn't have to pay for stuff Ill scrap, and I cant loose the weight, but the factory can. I don't look at the vette as a bargain, financially its maybe a bit less, but not bargain, I look at it as a great car that needs a little work to operate as well as its natural competitor.

 

I think another thing that should be mentioned is the actual tire CHOICE that people can make when tracking extensively. If I'm tracking a C8 (Stingray or Z06), I am NOT using Cup2R's or even Cup2's. I'm using Pilot Sport 4S's which aren't worn out in one day or one weekend and they are perfectly good track tires. You'll be a bit slower but not in the poor house either.
And with the speed capabilities of either the Stingray or the Z06, you're going to be in top third....

 

Most of the time how fast you in a car depends less on the car than on the driver.

Want to be faster? Take lessons from a pro driver.

You'll be faster in a base Miata than most goons in 500k+ supercars, if you really understand how to drive.

Buy a car -- be it the Z06, the 765LT, a GT3/RS, or some Ferrari or whatever -- because you enjoy driving it, either on the road or on the track, or both. Not because some magazine published some heroic lap time mostly unobtainable by mere mortals.

 

looking forwards to hearing of your driving experience with this car.

 

CARBON FIBER WHEELS DAMAGED ....... by dealership tire change equipment



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no surprise,

 

ho hum, wheels got scuffed. he should've gotten the wheels in black instead of visible cf so could just touch up scrapes. cf wheels are a big gamble esp if track car. simple pot hole can cost 10k. he must be running out of content....

 

the DEALER damaged the wheels changing tires. (no excuse for this) NOT track use.
Did you not watch the vid? Would that be acceptable from a Ferrari or Porsche dealer? of course not.
He says his FORD dealer did a good job on cf wheels for GT500 and Ford GT. Training and equipment to do the job right.
.

 

i saw it and it doesnt look like big deal to me. scuffs probably hidden by center cap too. how much does ford charge for tire change on their special equipment? $1000? boring...

 

scuffs? .... that's damage.

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maybe he will get (secret) compensated due to influencer but no way will regular customer get anything for this type outcome

 

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at 2:10 he says he's been waiting months for Chevy to find a solution and he be 'made right'.
.

 

no way will dealer give a new 10k wheel. fine print on service contract will put risk on the customer.

 

Appears GM replaced the wheels:

 

The squeaky wheel gets the grease ... or, the popular YouTuber gets new wheels ......... nobody is putting out more Z06 content than him. He's become a Z06 'brand ambassador'.

sooo, this sets a precedence, right? ...... Chevy needs a solution besides replacing wheels. Training and equipment.
.

 

wow, good for him.

 

Chevy had no choice. He has experience with many other 'supercars' and dealers, he praises the car, uses the car 'as intended' without abusing it and documents everything.
.

 

Wre bumping into a number of issues here.
No1. is most chevy dealers are not 150k car dealers, theyre more used to the lower rung consumer. Nor are most chevy dealers high performance car dealers. Some chev dealers though in my experience are exceptional at it, better than other brands. The problem is corvette is a chevy brand and in many ways an outlier in most chev dealers.

maybe when we have the corvette brand there will be minimal standards, as with other brands.

Moving on to the wheels issue. For sure the dealer should not have damaged these wheels, but it also highlights how potentially fragile these wheels are esp if much track use and multiple tire changes are contemplated..
Its why many here say they are inappropriate for the track where they may be 5+ changes per year, and peopel are working fast. Makes for somewhat quicker demo lap times, otherwise inappropriate for track.

 

Ford managed it. .... Designated (trained/equipped) dealers qualified to work on GT500 and Ford GT.
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This unfortunately has been my experience. The dealers really don't seem to care what you drive in to the service bay with. Its all the same to them -- and its just get them in and out as quickly as possible with as little information given as possible. Zero personal relationships.

 

Yeah but then Ive found the service quality ar mercedes to be hopeless. In some ways its dealer specific, but unless I really knew the dealer and service tech were competent, i wouldnt do much at any dealer beyond an oil change.

In FL my toyota dealer is way more competent than the Alfa dealer, but the Alfa dealer has a great waiting areas and they speak really nicely to you. In all fairness at toyota there is only one service advisor I deal with, shes a former racer, and makes sure only the competent touch my vehicle. At Alfa its like you're dealing with marketing majors, same at mercedes and BMW.

When I get my vette, its unlikely Ill service at chevy.
Even at ferrari, there was only one person Id let touch my car, and even then its not as though they could really balance wheels to the nth degree. Frankly most drivers in USA are so clueless, that i don't blame dealers for handing out slop. In fact its pretty hard in USA finding any shop that's really competent for any car. I just go to a few really specialized race shops who I know have real ability, and pay the price.

Still most chevy dealers do not offer a 150k car experience. There is a reason why toyota created the lexus division, its not just the car, its the whole experience. But hey its Gm, you know they don't care.