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Cad plating

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by omgjon, Apr 26, 2006.

  1. omgjon

    omgjon F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 13, 2005
    3,206
    Rancho Santa Fe, CA
    In the new issue it has an article on Gold Cad Plating at home. It is a product of Caswell inc. www.caswellplating.com. Has anyone used this or would recomend using.
     
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  3. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Jean-Paul
    New on this forum, I am to plate the catches/latches of hood and boot of my 330 GTC, year 1966.
    Does any one know the original color (rather silver or gold tone?) and or specification to give to the plater, since CAD plating is forbidden now. I have read "silver CAD plated" in the original specifications but it is no more valid.
    thanks
     
  4. 330BRC

    330BRC Karting

    May 4, 2007
    101
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Brian Conlan
    I recently had some newly fabricated small oil line fittings plated over brass. I was looking for a clear cad finish, but this was not available at the plate shop. I substituted satin chrome. It blends well with the other mechanical parts. Satin nickel was also an option and a little less bright but will age to a light yellowish patina according to the shop. The plate shop here had sample parts with differing finishes to help with making a finish decision.
     
  5. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Thanks.Does this "satin chrome" you mention corresponds to the finishing of a 330 GTC , year 1966, as ex-factory?
    on another hand, does "satin chrome" is a specification recognised by platers or is it the terminology of your current shop. Because I am located in France.
    thanks for your answer or any comment on the matter from other person knowing 330 GTC.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,489
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    Brian Crall
    In reality clear zinc (silver) and yellow zinc (gold) was far more common in automotive use from that period onward. Cad was used more for marine and aerospace due to cost and health concerns. Do not make the mistake of making it too dark yellow or making it too consistent. The factor plating was very inconsistent in color
     
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  8. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Thanks Rifledriver.
    I take the point, but, to your knowledge, do you confirm that ex-factory in 1966 for GTC, the plating was CAD Silver (rather than gold).
    From that CAD silver I will manage to find a "me too" aspect due to CAD interdiction.
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    27,489
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    Brian Crall
    Nope. Didnt say that.

    Which parts?
    What do you mean "Ex factory"?
     
  10. 330BRC

    330BRC Karting

    May 4, 2007
    101
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Brian Conlan
    Jean-Paul,
    Attached is a photo of an original clear cad plated brass part, and a newly made brass copy that has been finished in satin chrome. This is an engine oil line fitting that is part of an oil line assembly connecting the engine block on a later series 330GTC to a oil cooler in the radiator.
    The term “satin” refers to the sheen or reflective shine level of the final finish. After the part is chrome plated, the part is bushed with a fine brush to reduce the reflection of the finish. The term satin is more of a description than a specification.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. ingegnere

    ingegnere F1 Rookie
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    Sep 12, 2004
    3,723
    Montreal
    I expect it means “as it left the factory”.
     
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  13. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Jean-Paul
    It is to re-plate the hook latch and "eye" catch, central catch altogether with the "maintaining leg" LH of the hood, and the boot catch on the lid.
    Indeed "ex-factory" means As-built in dec 1966 (sorry for my English!)
     
  14. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Dear "330 BRC", thanks for the picture.
    I have not this piece since my GTC is an early one, Dec 66, without this device, but I see.
    It should the same finishing as for the catches of hood & boot I am to re-plate.
    So it is chrome plated, and the finishing would be adjusted to the level of brightness required, as "satin".
     
  15. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    Hi,

    Cad plating is still done but only for airplane and some other industries. I had my parts cad plated here in Germany but most companies stopped doing it because of chrome 6.

    If you want to know what parts were plated in which finish there are some very good sources. For the 330 there is lots of Info on Kerry Chesbro’s site (link enclosed). 330 owners should register with Kerry.

    Hope this helps
    Christopher

    http://330gt.com/Encyclopedia/Finishes.htm
     
  16. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Thanks Christc,
    indeed it is very difficult to find plater in France who comply for the harsh regulations on Chrome in the effluent.
    As for Kerry Chesbro, I already get it but he deals only of 330 GT, GTE or America as on this sheet recap, and not of 330 GTC, slightly later production by Pininfarina.
    But, at the end, I feel that Silver CAD was the right plating for boot & trunk catches of a 330 GTC.
    My only concern now is to "translate" the Silver CAD plating, now nearly impossible, to a me-too alternative, which may be is Zinc Chromate, as described in this link:
    http://429mustangcougarinfo.50megs.com/new_page_26.htm.
    if you get any advice, welcome!
     
  17. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    The judging guidlines for concourse judges for 330 Gtc say that both latches were silver cad plated. Bolts were either black or cad plated Lobo bolts.

    There is no real match for cad. Zinc blue (silver color) is much more shinny. Nickel could also be used as an alternative but would use nickel matt.

    It is ok to use this processes for these parts. If it comes to load bearing parts be carefull what you use as there is H2 embrittlement with some platings such as zinc which needs aftertreatment.

    Hope this helps
    Christopher
     
  18. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    7,197
    southwest germany
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    romano schwabel
    I would not care about silver or yellow plated. my BB koenig I just have plated the rear axle parts all in yellow. but it is notp an original BB, it is a koenig conversion and I not care about originality on this car
    cars older than 40 years nearly never are original. important is taht it not looks totally not original
     
  19. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Thanks Christofer,
    i see that you are sharp on this matter and I conclude that I will ask for Matt Nickel to the Platter (if he cannot accept CAD).
    I am quite attentive, for my part to do it as it was and the 330 GTC Judge's Manual is very useful. But for the LOBO bolts it is very difficult to find them in Europe, some retailer is selling in USA but with very expensive freight cost for France.
    Thanks again,
     
  20. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    Newco in US has Lobo bolts, but you are right, they are expensive and you have to add taxes and sending. Send me a PM with what you need if you want too. I have about 7000 Lobo bolts.

    Christopher
     
  21. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Exact, and the Newco owner is not willing to change his freight partner for small quantities, and costs for Europe, so I gave away.
    I send you separate PM later and I imagine that these 7000 bolts are from origin, dismantled from classic cars. I see you are in Germany, if not wrong?
     
  22. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    I am in Germany. Bolts are mainly NOS
     
  23. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Christopher,
    Thanks, I do not see if you are an individual owner of a Ferrari, or a professional retailer?
    I will do a recap of Lobo bolts after looking to the 330GTC next Monday. It is mostly M6x16 (16 or close by) mostly in the engine bay/bonnet.
    As far as I have inspected, this 330 GTC, when restored in Belgium, has had new bolts everywhere with galva common ones (except for the specifics as for Webers of V12 engine).
    Is it advisable to change all for Lobo's? Is it written some logo on their head?
    May be the answer is "up to you"! I do not intend to concourse, but it is my personal pleasure to see the car as it was built. So for what I can see...
    For instance I am searching a ribbed rubber moulding which lacks under this 330 GTC trunk (to cover a welding assembly line) very specific in aspect when considering the IAC/PFA Judge's Manual.
    Not easy to source at a reasonable price for a 200cm piece of rubber or polypro...
    BTW, since new member, I do not see easily how to switch to a separate PM (do I open a new thread with you as only dest.?).
    Looking forward,
    Jean-Paul
     
  24. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    Hi Jean-Paul,

    I am an owner and not a retailer and a little big crazy about details such as Lobo bolts, Cheney or Copiglia hose clamps, right surface coating, etc. In this context I bought the large amount of Lobo‘s. I do all my restoration myself including body work and mechanical like engine, etc.

    It is absolutely up to you what kind of bolts you use. If you want to have it right you do need to find out what was used where.

    In the 250 and 330 area Ferrari used mostly Lobo and plain bolts. For the 330 I would do some research on Fchat, Tom Yang and Kerry’s site to find out what kind of bolt was used where before I would change all to a specific kind. Also you need to now how they were finished. Most bolts where blackened, in German „brüniert“. The bigger nuts were often cad, e.g. on suspension parts.

    There are lots of very knowledgeable guys on this site having hugh experience. Most of them are in the US and not Europe and will share their knowledge if one asks.

    The judging manuals for the 330 Gt and Gtc are a good first source.

    For PM: If you click on the name of a user an window will open. There you will find „start a conversation“. If you click on it you can send a PM.

    For rubber parts I mostly use Cicognani. I am sure you will have tried them.

    Hope this helps.
    Christopher
     
  25. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    PS.:

    if you post for which parts you seek info on bolts I will try to help with the info I have.
     
  26. paul33

    paul33 Rookie
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    Feb 28, 2021
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    Sehr gehärter Christopher,
    Danke sehr fur alles. Stop. Back to English, it is my limit in German!
    Congrats for being able to restore the body.
    My limit is lower, but I have a scissors bridge at home to make mechanics or ordinary operations.
    For a 330 GTC, for the bolts, clamps, hoses finish, paint finishes ( matt, satin, glossy, oxide: bruniert, CAD, etc) really the Judge’, guide manual version 6.0 is really great. if you don’t get it I will forward it to you in PM with your tip.
    So I have a pretty precise idea of which bolts to be Lobo. But for the nuts I don’t know if they are Lobo as well or any black oxide nut would be ok?
    For Cheneys, I have already experience with another E type and MK2 of mine. You can’t reuse them without substancial risk of leaking, so I use Jubilee.
    Otherwise, Copiglia are nice and I just begin to put them on my 330GTC.
    Back to the bolts Lobo, I confirm that I will make a list, the only thing is that I need to mesure the required lengh on the existing one, because the spare parts catalogue does not give it, most of the time ( ex: fixation of fuel filter in the bay wall). I imagine that with such a quantity on hand, you have varions lenghs and diameters. Wiedersehn.
     
  27. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    344
    Germany
    #24 christc, May 14, 2021
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
    Hi Jean-Paul,

    I used only old cheney clamps after having them replated in cad. They are all perfect and can be tightend well so wont leak. I heard that the reproductions one can buy from Jaguar dealers are crap.

    For the nuts, they have no logo on them but slightly differ in terms of design and sometimes external dimensions compared to new nuts you can buy.

    Christopher
     
  28. Bertocchi

    Bertocchi Formula 3
    Consultant

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,894
    New Orleans, LA
    Full Name:
    David Castelhano
    I agree completely. Most coatings are rated in "salt bath hours" by the military and coating engineers. The better plating companies will ask for a Mil Spec on the coating you choose. I have found cadmium can change certain components dimensionally if it is not applied properly.
    Since auto restorers and enthusiasts aren't big clients for platers I have found my pieces are done after hours for extra money by the staff. There is little or no consistency. Most of what I do is zinc as Rifledriver states.
     

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