Cali T Warning Lights

Hi Guys,
Wonder if anyone has come across this before ?
Had 2 warnings as I was driving.
First, stop/start failure message (even though I have stop/start function turned off) and secondly engine control system failure.
The car drove fine on the way home and when parked I stopped the car, restarted and the engine control message remained although the stop/start message was gone.
I keep the car on the supplied battery charger.
I will restart again tomorrow and see if there is any change.
I have alerted the dealership as well.
regards

 

Have you gassed up recently? I had a similar issue that was traced to evap system.

Also, neve discount the possibility that your battery is getting old. Ditto the maintainer...T

 

Thanks tomc , yes a colleague straight away thought knackered battery; does anyone have a recommendation for a replacement Cali t battery ?
Thanks


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I'd reach out to user @Il Co-Pilota. He seems to have looked into this a bit and if I recall correctly, he recommended batteries from a company called Braille.

T

 

Yes Tom is correct.about Braille. The model you need is the B10049. Few make batteries of this quality and the cranking capacity is on a level nobody else gets even remotely close to.
Look at these numbers. It's just nuts.

Voltage: 12 volts
Full Charge Voltage: 13.8 volts
Short Circuit Current: 4000 - Estimated
Cranking Amps 30 sec @ 80F: 1846
Cranking Amps 30 sec @ 32F: 1520
Cold Cranking Amps 30 sec @ 0F: 1115

This should be what such a nice car came with.

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Brilliant thank you

 

From what I have read on this forum: A T without HELE uses a standard lead-acid battery that is charged to 14.3 volts. A T with HELE uses an AGM battery that is charged to 14.7 volts. They come with different battery tenders. Switching battery types shortens battery life because of over- or under-charging. So what happens if a Braille B10049 (which is AGM) is used in a non-HELE car?

 

I am asking because the factory Portofino battery is not supposed to be used for operating the roof. Eventually I would like to have a more powerful battery that is not stressed by operating the roof. When I was looking into buying a used T in 2017-2018,I read about non-HELE owners who were disappointed by battery life when they tried an AGM battery. The problem turned out to be that the AGMs weren't being fully charged. None were Braille batteries,however.

 

That is incorrect jnfo, not sure why such things would be posted. Both versions come with a lead acid battery that is charged to 12.6 volts, and if you try to go much beyond that, it will be bad. Bad as in kaboom!. The 13.8 volts of the Braille is fairly unique and very few 12 volt batteries can float that high.
A charger can charge at those levels you say, but that has nothing to do with at what level the battery floats at. Normally when charge amps go up, so does the voltage it puts in. That being said, both types use the same charger which has part number 70002822 for the US version. It's just a small rebranded CTek and whether the car has HELE or not, does not matter to the charger.

As far as HELE goes, Braille says no prob on that one.

The only time you'd need to change your charger, would be if you went Lithium.

Hope that clears things up a bit.

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The thing about not operating the roof has nothing to do with HELE or the battery per se. They say the same about a GranCabrio and 488 for that matter. It is simply because they are afraid that you drain the battery. A fully charged regular AGM or wet cell should have little issue opening or closing the Porto or T roof, but with crap batteries Ferrari uses, it's a lottery whether or not the car will start afterwards, not the cycle will stop half way. The Braille can supply more voltage and current than the roof will ever need - even at zero F degrees. Look at the amps available at 60 degrees F. Those are not even PCA, that number is continous amps! Can't remember the number off of the top of my head, but I think the B10049 PCA is in the 2800. A stock Ferrari battery can't even pulse at the levels the Braille can run cont. 32 F.

The Braille will be a great addition of you for instance want to install the module that lets you operate the roof remotely.

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Thanks for the information. I am also very interested in a lithium battery if it would bolt right in and not cause issues. I have a Braille lithium battery in my Corvette which is the same size as the stock battery and weighs only 12 pounds. I use an OptiMate maintainer for it.

 

Let us know if you do lithium.
I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts and impressions...T

 

The Braille i49CS will be a direct replacement. Just get the CTek lithium charger with the ebay magnetic adapter and Bob's your uncle.

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Just a quick edit. I just looked up the size of the Porto battery, and it is a group 48, not group 49 as found in the Cali T.

So for a Porto the Braille lithium would be the I48CS or B7548 for AGM. Itit's a different size, but all the advantages explained earlier, still applies.

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If you have a HELE car and you replace the factory AGM battery with the wrong battery, the new battery can die very quickly because AGM batteries recharge at 14.7V instead of 14.4V - this is specified by battery manufacturers, not something I cooked up. Your replacement battery must perform like an AGM battery or better. It has to do with fast charging time required by HELE and different charging voltages needed to recharge AGM batteries.

I've been very busy with other projects but an FCHAT member asked me to look in on this thread.

I am the original owner of a 2013 California 30 with HELE and I was the first person to discuss HELE, STOP-START and AGM batteries on this forum. In 2013 when I took delivery and then promptly experienced the EXACT SAME SYSTEM WARNINGS - PROBLEMS like yours I was informed by my dealer, FoO (Ontario) that my car was only the 2nd HELE car in all of Canada.

STOP-START is not required in Canada so HELE was new and unfamiliar to Canadian dealers in 2013 so it took a long time to sort out my problems, which started 7 days after I took delivery. To try to make a very long story short, my dealer did diagnose a BAD BATTERY but they replaced the factory AGM battery with the WRONG BATTERY, a regular lead-acid battery, so it also promptly failed after a bit of driving. While the dealer was trying to sort out the HELE system I figured out the problem.

HELE puts a great strain on the charging system and batteries because engine starts creates deep discharge and if the engine has to restart every time you stop for traffic, you can easily exceed 10 engine starts on a short trip for groceries. Regular lead-acid batteries cannot recharge that quickly so they will soon fully discharge and overheat if you use them on a HELE car.

After I informed and convinced my dealer to use a more expensive AGM battery I looked into why the original factory AGM battery failed despite my using the supplied charger everyday.

I contacted both OPTIMA and INTERSTATE Batteries and spoke to their technical staff - they both emphatically said AGM batteries MUST BE charged at 14.7V instead of 14.4V (at ambient 25°C). I believe OPTIMA make their own batteries but AGM batteries in general come from Germany, even if the brand is American, like Interstate. There are small few factories making AGM batteries in the world - so this charging voltage requirement is universal. Here are charts from Rolls Batteries showing 14.7V they spec for charging their AGM batteries as well as CTEK battery charger owner's manual explanation on charging modes.

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Here's the newer CTEK MSX-5 owners' manual describing the differences between "normal" (regular lead-acid) battery and AGM charging modes

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On older CTEK chargers like the MULTI US 4.3 and 7002, AGM charging is performed by the SNOWFLAKE MODE

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So if your charger does not have a special charging mode for AGM batteries, it will contribute to destroying the battery even if you have the correct AGM battery because the battery will slowly drain when you think it's being recharged.

Look at this chart showing different voltage levels that represent state of charge for AGM vs regular lead-acid batteries. Non-AGM-charging cycles are fooled if they check voltage of the AGM using voltage reference for lead-acid batteries. AGM batteries require 13.0V+ vs 12.6V+ to indicate 100% charge. This means regular chargers without AGM charging modes also cannot fully charge AGM batteries.

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So it's likely my dealer did not fully recharge the original AGM battery when my car arrived after the 2 month boat trip from Italy. Container ships do not provide AGM battery chargers. Then after I took delivery, all my driving depleted the battery further and I had the wrong battery tender, which then failed to recharge the battery even though I used it daily.

When I explained this to my dealer, they actually bought and gave me a CTEK 7002 for free.

BTW, if you test your Cali's battery while it's connected to the car's battery terminals you cannot get an accurate state-of-charge voltage reading using regular voltmeters or even special car battery testers because the car is constantly drawing a current. You need to use the Ferrari-branded EXP-899 Midtronics tester shown below or know the conversion factor for the voltage readings.

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I have not had any problems ever since my dealer gave me the CTEK 7002 charger. I also use a CTEK MULTI US 4.3. Here's a shot of my original AGM replacement battery, I recently replaced it with a newer model even though it was still working OK.

My Cali30 runs perfectly and I love it.

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It is important to match the physical size of the battery to ensure it fits the battery cradle in the car. After all, that's why they come in different sizes. If the battery is not secured properly it may get damaged. Extra vibrations from a loosely-fitted battery will damage the battery. A smaller battery can also change the weight balance slightly.

I love high performance after-market replacements but they HAVE TO FIT PROPERLY.