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California/California T market?

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by ferrari360driver, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. ferrari360driver

    Apr 8, 2012
    203
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Rich
    Curious what everyone thinks of these two cars as far as values? I am wanting to possibly upgrade to one from the 348. Shall I hold out for the Cali T to come down in price more, or will it come down much more anytime soon at all? Be nice to see them get closer to 100K
     
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  3. SLViper1

    SLViper1 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 25, 2014
    599
    Nashville/Destin
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Nice Cali 30 (2013-2014) $100-110s
    Nice Cali T 2015 $130 & up
     
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  4. XSpeed

    XSpeed Formula Junior

    Jan 6, 2019
    362
    Full Name:
    SX
    i think cali T has a great price point at the moment. If you see one with Handling Speciale with the color you like, don't miss it.

    Many people waiting since last year will be buying sports cars so I don't expect prices to come down a lot this year.
     
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  5. vjd3

    vjd3 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2005
    2,215
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Vic
    Opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them ;) Here is mine ...

    There are three varieties of Californias:

    2009-2012 California
    2013-2014 California 30 -- 30 more horsepower, 30 kg lighter, some significant performance improvements (re-gearing), DCT is (allegedly) a bit more robust than the original
    2015-2018 California T -- turbocharged, significantly more powerful, nicely redesigned body and some interior upgrades, DCT is (allegedly) the best of the three

    These three models tend to buttress each other as far as values -- given similar condition, good options and low-ish mileage.

    If the 2009-2012 cars are ranging, say, from $80k-90k, and the Cali 30 is pulling $100k-120k, then the T will sit $120k+ depending on year and mileage/options -- carbon, the HSE package, etc. So the question becomes, where will the 2009 car bottom out (I would say it's probably pretty close by this point) and how much "extra" will the 30 and the T command from that point on.

    My feeling is the early Californias are getting pretty close to the bottom. There will be outliers -- cars with 20k+ miles, cars with minor accidents or Carfax blemishes, lightly optioned cars or weird color combinations. And you will almost certainly pay more for a CPO car at a Ferrari dealer -- with or without the extra warranty, but more with the warranty for sure.
     
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  6. alex

    alex Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2003
    466
    Crystal Lake, Illinois
    Full Name:
    Alex
    I think you're dreaming a little regarding $100K!
     
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  8. alex

    alex Formula Junior
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    Dec 19, 2003
    466
    Crystal Lake, Illinois
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    Alex
    After all, there is nothing more expensive than a cheap Ferrari!
     
  9. rbellezza

    rbellezza F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 18, 2008
    2,755
    Henderson, NV
    Full Name:
    Roberto Bellezza
    So true !
     
  10. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
    784
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Shawn Hicks
    I’ve been tracking these models in particular for a while now. Honestly the pandemic has actually held prices from typical fluctuations and maybe even bolstered them some. It’s almost like there is a bit higher demand for them then average. Some of this is likely due to several factors such as shortages of new models, individuals that made out well in the pandemic stock market are splurging, individuals working at companies that have done well during the pandemic using windfall bonuses are splurging, or any combination of these and many other factors. Seems like real estate, RV’s and high performance and exotic cars are moving very well during the pandemic. I’ve seen houses that were for sale for years pre pandemic sold, renovated and resold in just a few months time that otherwise would have just kept on sitting.

    but back to market values, they’ve stayed pretty steady over the last 12 months. Not even a lot of off season fluctuation. Of course I’m not privy to actual sale prices negotiated but it seems to me there is no reason to hold off on purchasing in the foreseeable future since it’s not likely any of these cars are likely to go down in value significantly.

    As far as how much farther from
    The bottom they are, well it’s anyone’s guess. These are 2+2 Ferrari’s and traditionally the value generally isn’t high, on the other hand the California and its variants are more desirable due to the hard top convertible aspect.

    I used to think it was possible to see first gen Cali’s upper 60’s low 70’s to start at the bottom of deprishiation similar to the string of 360’s but now I’m not sure. Maybe mid to upper 70’s is the basement. Maybe cali t will see low 6 figures at the bottom but again who knows.

    but even if my guess comes close buying now still won’t hurt too badly and if indeed they are bottomed out you’ve got nothing to lose but the time you would be enjoying the car.
     
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  11. Bill Phillips

    Bill Phillips Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2019
    229
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill
    Well, I guess if you consider a blink-of-an-eye difference in going from 0 - 60 mph ‘significant‘ ;)
     
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  13. vjd3

    vjd3 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2005
    2,215
    Massachusetts
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    Vic
    I’ve owned and put 10k+ miles on both a Cali 30 and a Cali T. The 30 is plenty quick at 483 hp / 372 lb-ft but the T is 553/557 and it makes a big difference. The 30 sounds better but the power delivery in the T is impressive.
     
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  14. Cali T HS

    Cali T HS Rookie

    Sep 12, 2020
    24
    Zurich Switzerland
    The law of diminishing returns shows in a 0-60 test for a front-mid engine rear drive concept. Even the Portofino M with 620 hp is only slightly quicker to 60. However, the Cali T wipes the floor with the Cali (non T) in a real life road/track test. And a Portofino M will be noticeably faster than a Cali T.
     
  15. Bill Phillips

    Bill Phillips Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2019
    229
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill
    I have a Cali-30 and the exhaust sound was definitely a big factor. I don’t track mine, but I do track other high performance sports cars. I drive this one to its potential regularly and if I were to take it to the track, without wider rims and a lot better rubber any more power would be all but useless, IMHO. I never found myself at a stoplight next to a Cali T or a Portofino, and Road & Track will never invite me to do a comparison test, so whether either of them could ‘wipe the floor’ with me is a complete non-factor as far as I’m concerned. :) I’m sure I enjoy mine every bit as much as the later model owners do theirs, power not withstanding. To each his own.
     
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  16. vjd3

    vjd3 Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 3, 2005
    2,215
    Massachusetts
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    Vic
    I loved my grigio titanio Cali 30, I drove it for 3 years and 15k miles. Had life not intervened I would likely still own it, and if it popped up for sale locally I’d be tempted to buy it back. Great power and great sound. That being said, I put the HS Speciale exhaust on my Cali T and I have gotten used to the extra power. Aside from the sound of the turbos spooling up, it feels like a normally aspirated car, very different from the older Porsche turbo I owned. It would be interesting to drive a Cali 30 again.

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  17. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
    784
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Shawn Hicks
    It’s my humble opinion that the Cali 30 is arguably the best value right now. But the Cali T has a better interior.

    there are aspects of both the California I like and the Cali T that I like. But at the end of the day they are all great cars. It comes down to what car has the options and color combos you like. And everyone’s personal preference is different. But I can say that while there may be a price difference between the different models the feelings you get while driving any of these is priceless. Honestly I’ve never felt like I wished I’d chosen differently when I open the garage and lower the lift or when I’m cruising around. I just feel lucky and blessed that I have been able to afford a car like this for fun.
     
  18. vjd3

    vjd3 Formula 3
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    Jun 3, 2005
    2,215
    Massachusetts
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    Vic
    Which one did you buy, Shawn?
     
  19. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
    784
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Shawn Hicks
    2010 California red on black. Though I do t have one now I enjoyed it while I had it. Wife wanted a class a motor home and I didn’t want a payment. In a perfect world I’d have had both but with the pandemic it didn’t seem like a good idea to have a note on an RV so I sold the Cali.

    Love the platform but likely will be buying an FF or Lusso when I get back into one because I learned the hard way the back seat sucks for a kid and would only get worse. The wife and I had a surprise blessing that will be around for a while and she probably would enjoy the room in the back of an FF or Lusso more.

    But back to the topic of which car I’d buy now if I were to buy one today? Definitely the Cali 30 followed closely by a Cali T. Would depend on what cars I found with the boxes I want checked. Probably wouldn’t go for a pre 2013 California again, not that it is a bad car just the 30 is better. The T has a nicer in my opinion interior.
     
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  20. Bill Phillips

    Bill Phillips Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 4, 2019
    229
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill
    One other aspect of the Cali-30 that appealed to me is the retro factor, like the hood scoop as a nod to the original California from the ‘60s. And the instrument cluster, even though it has a CRT screen on the side it still has round dials with real moving needles. The newer they get the more electronic the displays become and the less attractive to me. All that probably stems from the fact that although I wanted one since I was a kid growing up in the ‘50s I didn’t own my first Ferrari until I was almost seventy. Better late...
     
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  21. azlin75

    azlin75 Formula Junior

    Jul 16, 2017
    784
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Shawn Hicks
    That is one of the most attractive things that I personally thing the original Californian and Cali 30 have going for them, the semi retro styling. Not a huge fan of the stacked exhaust though. If I could have one that looks like the Cali 30 on the outside but like the Cali t on the inside and had the horizontal exhaust that would be it for me. Like the power of the Cali T but the exhaust note of the Cali 30. But that just me picking nits.
     
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